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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
"To study Buddhism is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be awakened by all things."
Dogen
4
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
"Have good trust in yourself ... not in the One that you think you should be, but in the One that you are."
Maezumi Roshi
3
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Learning Zen is a phenomenon of gold and dung. Before you understand it, it's like gold; after you understand it, it's like dung.
— Zen proverb
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Just as a goldsmith assays gold, by rubbing, cutting, and burning, so should you examine my words. Do not accept them just out of faith in me.
— Buddha
If, after obtaining Buddhahood, anyone in my land
gets tossed in jail on a vagrancy rap, may I
not attain highest perfect enlightenment.
-Gary Snyder, ‘Burning’
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
The only Zen you find at the top of the mountain is the Zen you bring with you.
— Zen proverb
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Suffering arises from clinging. Therefore for the mind which inclines to letting go, the path to enlightenment is very much easier.
— paraphrased from the Buddha
Anxiety, the illness of our time, comes primarily from our inability to dwell in the present moment.
—Thich Nhat Hanh, The Heart of the Buddha’s Teaching
3
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
‘Heroes become Buddhas with one thought, but the lazy people are given the three collections of scriptures to traverse.’
— zen sutra
Suppose you are on a flight. The aircraft is state-of-the-art, comfortable. Beautiful sky outside the window, attentive stewardesses, soft music, classy passengers....everything is perfect. You are sure that the journey will be quite pleasant.
But suddenly comes the voice of the captain, “Our plane is off course and has lost contact with the ground. We have no landing point and must keep flying. We have enough fuel to only last ten minutes.”
How would you feel then? All these wonderful feelings disappear immediately. “Captain please try all means to find a safe landing place.”
When a person is born the plane of his life takes off. Even if one has another 40 or 50 years to live, the time is like the fuel on the plane: it only decreases and will soon be used up.
Where is the landing point of our life? Can we enjoy living at ease before we find it?
Power, status, money, career, marriage, family - are any of these the final landing point of our life?
Someone who believes these are the aim of life is like a lost plane taking the clouds in the air as a safe landing place.
Although from the beginning
I knew
the world is impermanent,
not a moment passes
when my sleeves are dry.
—Zen Master Ryokan, Sky Above, Great Wind
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
So, Bahiya, should you train yourself: “in the seen, there will be only the seen; in the heard, only the heard; in the sensed, only the sensed; in that of which I am conscious, only that of which I am conscious.” This is how you should train.
"Speak the truth; yield not to anger; when asked, give even if you only have a little. By these three means can one reach the presence of the gods."
(Dhammapada 224)
The sun shines by day, the moon shines by night.
The warrior shines in armour, the holy man shines in meditation.
But the Buddha shines resplendent all day and all night.
It does not matter whether you are a layperson or a home leaver. Those who can discern excellence invariably come to trust in this practice. Those who regard worldly affairs as a hindrance to buddha dharma think only that there is no buddha dharma in the secular world; they do not understand that there is no secular world in buddha dharma.
@Bunks said:
"...regard thinking as the carcass of a dead dog around the neck of your beautiful mind."
This is a bit harsh for me to be honest. Is thinking such a disgusting or useless thing? I tend to favour a kinder approach personally. What do you think of it, @Bunks?
@Bunks said:
"...regard thinking as the carcass of a dead dog around the neck of your beautiful mind."
This is a bit harsh for me to be honest. Is thinking such a disgusting or useless thing? I tend to favour a kinder approach personally. What do you think of it, @Bunks?
It’s actually a direct reference to the Vitakkasanthana Sutta (MN 20.4). Worth a read if you have the chance.
I get your point and I can assure you Ajahn Brahm is one of the most compassionate and kind monks you’ll ever come across. I’ve heard some say he is too kind and compassion (if there is such a thing).
The quote is probably taken out of context a bit. It is written for people who are trying to achieve jhana while on retreat so stilling all thoughts is obviously the objective.
Us lay folk who have to work, raise kids and engage with our family and friends obviously have to engage in thoughts fairly constantly.
But, let’s be honest, I’d go so far as to say 90% of the thoughts we engage in are useless and could easily be chucked away.
@ Dogen said:
... no secular world in buddha dharma.
No secular, no ignorance, no samsara. Which is hard to comprehend.
The things we despise or dislike (in my case the orange president) are part of the awake Buddha Nature. Ay caramba!
Initially and for most of our journey we must focus and concentrate on the beneficial, the dharma teachings, that which we easily recognise as true, good and generating well being for all ...
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited October 2019
@Bunks said:... But, let’s be honest, I’d go so far as to say 90% of the thoughts we engage in are useless and could easily be chucked away.
I once read someone who commented something along these lines (it's not a direct quote, but definitely the right gist):
If we're on the bus, and a passenger talking to themselves 19 to the dozen comes and sits beside us, we recoil and have concerns that the person next to us is unbalanced.
Yet, if we were to verbalise our thoughts, as we have them, and speak them out loud at random - wouldn't we be regarded in the same light?
And you're right. @Bunks, 90% of them are unnecessary. That is to say, 10% satisfy our needs in considering matters. All the rest is extraneous dross we attach to the necessary thought-processes...
@Kerome said:
Learning Zen is a phenomenon of gold and dung. Before you understand it, it's like gold; after you understand it, it's like dung.
— Zen proverb
@Bunks said:
"...regard thinking as the carcass of a dead dog around the neck of your beautiful mind."
This is a bit harsh for me to be honest. Is thinking such a disgusting or useless thing? I tend to favour a kinder approach personally. What do you think of it, @Bunks?
It’s actually a direct reference to the Vitakkasanthana Sutta (MN 20.4). Worth a read if you have the chance.
I get your point and I can assure you Ajahn Brahm is one of the most compassionate and kind monks you’ll ever come across. I’ve heard some say he is too kind and compassion (if there is such a thing).
The quote is probably taken out of context a bit. It is written for people who are trying to achieve jhana while on retreat so stilling all thoughts is obviously the objective.
Us lay folk who have to work, raise kids and engage with our family and friends obviously have to engage in thoughts fairly constantly.
But, let’s be honest, I’d go so far as to say 90% of the thoughts we engage in are useless and could easily be chucked away.
Problem is, we know they're useless AFTER they've occurred. Dealing with them beforehand is not easy, which is why mindfulness is important (although it's frustrating at times).
@Bunks said:
But, let’s be honest, I’d go so far as to say 90% of the thoughts we engage in are useless and could easily be chucked away.
I do agree with this. A couple of years ago I had a therapist who said whenever I feel the need to ruminate about something, give myself two minutes and then put the thing aside. Two minutes, by his calculation, was as long as ruminating could possibly be useful for. After that, it's all just re-runs and pointless worrying.
It’s actually a direct reference to the Vitakkasanthana Sutta (MN 20.4). Worth a read if you have the chance.
Thank you for the reference. I've read the passage about "changing the peg" before, but not the later sections. Ajahn Brahm seems to be referring to the part specifically about evil thoughts. In that context I do find his comment more understandable.
Your life is like a bus with nobody in the driver’s seat - that’s what the suttas and all the great teachers tell us, and it’s also what I say.
When you realise there’s no one driving the bus, all you can do is sit down in your seat and stop complaining
Don’t burden others with your expectations. Understanding their limitations can inspire compassion instead of disappointment, ensuring beneficial and workable relationships. Remember that you have only a short time together. Be grateful for each day you share.
~ Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche
@Bunks said:
The speech and thoughts of ordinary beings are like the chirping of cicadas - loud but meaningless.
Dharma Master Jingzong
What has Jing zong got against cicadas? Loud, repetitive and territorial norm, much like the insects ...
Too harsh? Ah well chirp away Masterful one 🤗😌💗 ... just a thought ...
2
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
If one seeks the Buddha, one should investigate one’s mind, for there is no Buddha outside one’s mind.
Life is swept along, next to nothing its span.
For one swept to old age no shelters exist.
Perceiving this danger in death,
one should drop the world’s bait and hook for peace.
When the great root of faith and the great ball of doubt are present,
great determination will arise.
Great determination is a strong resolve that wells up from the bottom of our gut and spurs us on.
We already believe that we ourselves are intrinsically awake;
we only need discover what is within us.
Koun Yamada - Great Faith, Great Doubt, Great Determination
"As the Buddha once said, our duty with regard to suffering is to comprehend it, to understand it to the point where we stop creating it, where we can let it go. All the causes, all the conditions that lead to it: we can let them go. That way the problems we’re responsible for totally disband. As for the rest of the world outside, it goes along with its own way, but it doesn’t make inroads on the mind, can’t weigh the mind down. Those are the benefits of learning to understand or learning to discern suffering.
But for most of us, our lives are distracted with other things, other issues that seem to be more pressing — and they make themselves more pressing. They demand that we take responsibility for them. It requires a real act of will to step outside of those imposed responsibilities, and to take the time to really look into the mind to see exactly where the suffering is, what the suffering is, where it’s coming from, and how it can be stopped."
@Bunks said:
With one’s wealth collected justly,
Won through one’s own efforts,
One shares both food and drink
With beings who are in need.
Itivuttaka 3.75
I find this very meaningful. We always admire people who make money through hard work, but whether they share it with the needy or not is an afterthought, none of our business...
The key to developing tolerance is to separate the validity of an idea from the validity of the person holding the idea. Behind every idea is a motivation that is shaped by hopes and fears. If we are able to identify this underlying motivation, we will see the wish to find happiness and to be free from suffering.
“We are constantly belting out ideas based on our perceptions. We then begin to develop and exaggerate the experience (i.e.- we make up scenarios). An artificial structure, called personality, is the outcome of this process.”
— Gonpo geshe
PS: And we get belted back by them
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
“The plain fact is that the planet does not need more successful people. But it does desperately need more peacemakers, healers, restorers, storytellers, and lovers of every kind. It needs people who live well in their places. It needs people of moral courage willing to join the fight to make the world habitable and humane. And these qualities have little to do with success as we have defined it.”
— David W. Orr (not sure if he is Buddhist but I liked the quote)
Comments
"To study Buddhism is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be awakened by all things."
"Have good trust in yourself ... not in the One that you think you should be, but in the One that you are."
Learning Zen is a phenomenon of gold and dung. Before you understand it, it's like gold; after you understand it, it's like dung.
— Zen proverb
Just as a goldsmith assays gold, by rubbing, cutting, and burning, so should you examine my words. Do not accept them just out of faith in me.
— Buddha
If, after obtaining Buddhahood, anyone in my land
gets tossed in jail on a vagrancy rap, may I
not attain highest perfect enlightenment.
-Gary Snyder, ‘Burning’
The only Zen you find at the top of the mountain is the Zen you bring with you.
— Zen proverb
Suffering arises from clinging. Therefore for the mind which inclines to letting go, the path to enlightenment is very much easier.
— paraphrased from the Buddha
Anxiety, the illness of our time, comes primarily from our inability to dwell in the present moment.
—Thich Nhat Hanh, The Heart of the Buddha’s Teaching
‘Heroes become Buddhas with one thought, but the lazy people are given the three collections of scriptures to traverse.’
— zen sutra
Suppose you are on a flight. The aircraft is state-of-the-art, comfortable. Beautiful sky outside the window, attentive stewardesses, soft music, classy passengers....everything is perfect. You are sure that the journey will be quite pleasant.
But suddenly comes the voice of the captain, “Our plane is off course and has lost contact with the ground. We have no landing point and must keep flying. We have enough fuel to only last ten minutes.”
How would you feel then? All these wonderful feelings disappear immediately. “Captain please try all means to find a safe landing place.”
When a person is born the plane of his life takes off. Even if one has another 40 or 50 years to live, the time is like the fuel on the plane: it only decreases and will soon be used up.
Where is the landing point of our life? Can we enjoy living at ease before we find it?
Power, status, money, career, marriage, family - are any of these the final landing point of our life?
Someone who believes these are the aim of life is like a lost plane taking the clouds in the air as a safe landing place.
Dharma Master Jingzong
Although from the beginning
I knew
the world is impermanent,
not a moment passes
when my sleeves are dry.
—Zen Master Ryokan, Sky Above, Great Wind
So, Bahiya, should you train yourself: “in the seen, there will be only the seen; in the heard, only the heard; in the sensed, only the sensed; in that of which I am conscious, only that of which I am conscious.” This is how you should train.
— Udana
"Speak the truth; yield not to anger; when asked, give even if you only have a little. By these three means can one reach the presence of the gods."
(Dhammapada 224)
Easy to do are things that are bad and harmful to oneself.
But exceedingly difficult to do are things that are good and beneficial.
Dhammapada 12.163
Amen...🙏🙏🙏
"How wondrously supernatural
And how miraculous this !
I draw water, and I carry fuel!"
~P'ang-yun...Zen poet~
The sun shines by day, the moon shines by night.
The warrior shines in armour, the holy man shines in meditation.
But the Buddha shines resplendent all day and all night.
Dhammapada 26.387
It does not matter whether you are a layperson or a home leaver. Those who can discern excellence invariably come to trust in this practice. Those who regard worldly affairs as a hindrance to buddha dharma think only that there is no buddha dharma in the secular world; they do not understand that there is no secular world in buddha dharma.
—Zen Master Dogen
On the Endeavor of the Way
Well said @AsterDogen (similar to Master Dogen but more flowery)
💐
"...regard thinking as the carcass of a dead dog around the neck of your beautiful mind."
Ajahn Brahm - The Art of Disappearing
Along similar lines:
Proverbs 26:11
(Sadly, I know quite a few 'dogs'...)
This is a bit harsh for me to be honest. Is thinking such a disgusting or useless thing? I tend to favour a kinder approach personally. What do you think of it, @Bunks?
It’s actually a direct reference to the Vitakkasanthana Sutta (MN 20.4). Worth a read if you have the chance.
I get your point and I can assure you Ajahn Brahm is one of the most compassionate and kind monks you’ll ever come across. I’ve heard some say he is too kind and compassion (if there is such a thing).
The quote is probably taken out of context a bit. It is written for people who are trying to achieve jhana while on retreat so stilling all thoughts is obviously the objective.
Us lay folk who have to work, raise kids and engage with our family and friends obviously have to engage in thoughts fairly constantly.
But, let’s be honest, I’d go so far as to say 90% of the thoughts we engage in are useless and could easily be chucked away.
No secular, no ignorance, no samsara. Which is hard to comprehend.
The things we despise or dislike (in my case the orange president) are part of the awake Buddha Nature. Ay caramba!
Initially and for most of our journey we must focus and concentrate on the beneficial, the dharma teachings, that which we easily recognise as true, good and generating well being for all ...
I once read someone who commented something along these lines (it's not a direct quote, but definitely the right gist):
If we're on the bus, and a passenger talking to themselves 19 to the dozen comes and sits beside us, we recoil and have concerns that the person next to us is unbalanced.
Yet, if we were to verbalise our thoughts, as we have them, and speak them out loud at random - wouldn't we be regarded in the same light?
And you're right. @Bunks, 90% of them are unnecessary. That is to say, 10% satisfy our needs in considering matters. All the rest is extraneous dross we attach to the necessary thought-processes...
I would go further. Some of them harm us, for example:
... we are all from personal experience, aware of the harmful dross. If disciplined we can refocus/orientate/gravitate towards skilful states ...
When you think about it...what goes on behind the scheme is just crazy..
That is a hard one. It is true. Dung is like gold. How precious. The Silent. 🙊
On deiba yakisya banta banta kakakaka sowak
Stinking thinking!!!
Problem is, we know they're useless AFTER they've occurred. Dealing with them beforehand is not easy, which is why mindfulness is important (although it's frustrating at times).
I do agree with this. A couple of years ago I had a therapist who said whenever I feel the need to ruminate about something, give myself two minutes and then put the thing aside. Two minutes, by his calculation, was as long as ruminating could possibly be useful for. After that, it's all just re-runs and pointless worrying.
Thank you for the reference. I've read the passage about "changing the peg" before, but not the later sections. Ajahn Brahm seems to be referring to the part specifically about evil thoughts. In that context I do find his comment more understandable.
Your life is like a bus with nobody in the driver’s seat - that’s what the suttas and all the great teachers tell us, and it’s also what I say.
When you realise there’s no one driving the bus, all you can do is sit down in your seat and stop complaining
Ajahn Brahm
Learn this from the waters:
In mountain clefts and chasms,
Loud gush the streamlets,
But great rivers flow silently.
Sutta Nipata 3.725
Don’t burden others with your expectations. Understanding their limitations can inspire compassion instead of disappointment, ensuring beneficial and workable relationships. Remember that you have only a short time together. Be grateful for each day you share.
~ Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche
Great quote @Jeffrey
Chew your food
Mummy
When you hurt me, you hurt yourself.
When you love me, you love yourself.
—Beyoncé
The speech and thoughts of ordinary beings are like the chirping of cicadas - loud but meaningless.
Dharma Master Jingzong
What has Jing zong got against cicadas? Loud, repetitive and territorial norm, much like the insects ...
Too harsh? Ah well chirp away Masterful one 🤗😌💗 ... just a thought ...
If one seeks the Buddha, one should investigate one’s mind, for there is no Buddha outside one’s mind.
Bodhidharma
Life is swept along, next to nothing its span.
For one swept to old age no shelters exist.
Perceiving this danger in death,
one should drop the world’s bait and hook for peace.
Samyutta Nikaya 1.100
The worse of the two is one, who, when abused, retaliates.
One who does not retaliate, wins a battle hard to win.
Samyutta Nikaya 1.188
Above, across or back again,
wherever one goes in the world
let one carefully scrutinise
the rise and fall of compounded things.
Itivuttaka 4.111
When the great root of faith and the great ball of doubt are present,
great determination will arise.
Great determination is a strong resolve that wells up from the bottom of our gut and spurs us on.
We already believe that we ourselves are intrinsically awake;
we only need discover what is within us.
Koun Yamada - Great Faith, Great Doubt, Great Determination
"As the Buddha once said, our duty with regard to suffering is to comprehend it, to understand it to the point where we stop creating it, where we can let it go. All the causes, all the conditions that lead to it: we can let them go. That way the problems we’re responsible for totally disband. As for the rest of the world outside, it goes along with its own way, but it doesn’t make inroads on the mind, can’t weigh the mind down. Those are the benefits of learning to understand or learning to discern suffering.
But for most of us, our lives are distracted with other things, other issues that seem to be more pressing — and they make themselves more pressing. They demand that we take responsibility for them. It requires a real act of will to step outside of those imposed responsibilities, and to take the time to really look into the mind to see exactly where the suffering is, what the suffering is, where it’s coming from, and how it can be stopped."
~ Thanissaro Bhikkhu "Breaking Old Habits"
With one’s wealth collected justly,
Won through one’s own efforts,
One shares both food and drink
With beings who are in need.
Itivuttaka 3.75
Me
I find this very meaningful. We always admire people who make money through hard work, but whether they share it with the needy or not is an afterthought, none of our business...
The key to developing tolerance is to separate the validity of an idea from the validity of the person holding the idea. Behind every idea is a motivation that is shaped by hopes and fears. If we are able to identify this underlying motivation, we will see the wish to find happiness and to be free from suffering.
—Khentrul Rinpoche, “Unity in Difference”
“We are constantly belting out ideas based on our perceptions. We then begin to develop and exaggerate the experience (i.e.- we make up scenarios). An artificial structure, called personality, is the outcome of this process.”
— Gonpo geshe
PS: And we get belted back by them
“The plain fact is that the planet does not need more successful people. But it does desperately need more peacemakers, healers, restorers, storytellers, and lovers of every kind. It needs people who live well in their places. It needs people of moral courage willing to join the fight to make the world habitable and humane. And these qualities have little to do with success as we have defined it.”
— David W. Orr (not sure if he is Buddhist but I liked the quote)