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Is the goal of every religion the same?

Despite superficial differences, it seems that the goal of every religion is essentially freedom from the flesh/world. Buddhists call that state nibanna, others call it heaven. If we accept this, we also have to accept that just about any method would do, and Buddhism is simply one such method. If a guy could attain this end by standing upside down (not to be confused with yoga), that too would be a valid means.

Do you feel this way, or do you feel that means and end are one?
Balance_1991

Comments

  • ToshTosh Veteran
    edited November 2012
    I think Buddhism is the only religion which claims you can reach salvation while still alive; all the rest you have to die first to get to. There could be some exceptions, but none spring to mind.

    The best one seems to be Mormonism (if we're after choosing). After you die you get to be a God, you get 100 Celestial virgins and you're own planet to populate with your off-spring from the women you have. And you're God of this planet.

    I'm not sure what happens to the Mormon women when they die though? I'll refrain from making a crass joke too.
    Balance_1991
  • Christianity you have salvation from original sin.
    Buddhism you have salvation (oops I meant liberation) from the 3 poisons.

    Similar but very different because you overcome the sin by faith in god and the energy of God goes into you as you are reborn. Awareness of the law creates sin. And having total faith in Jesus liberates you from the law. You wouldn't have been able to follow the law without Jesus, but having total faith and a relationships with Jesus and you are uplifted from bad actions - sin. (I watched a televangelist a coupla weeks ago :hair: )

    Whereas Buddhism you practice the eightfold path (when you attain noble view). You attain noble view by pointing out instructions of a guru or else learning on your own from sutras and so forth.
  • Islamic Gnostics say, 'Die before you die'. They very much enter union (death of the ego) before death.
    Christian and Jewish contemplatives are attempting a similar unification.

    Most Buddhists, like in other religions are rarely gnostics, contemplatives or full time adherents. I think Hinduism and Judaism are best 'born into' as they are so integrated in a lifestyle and culture. The means are very much part of ones heritage.

    People who convert say to Tibetan Buddhism are often much more inclined to adopt the irrelevent cultural practices and go into greater depth with quite advanced or obscure practices.

    I feel it is important to find and follow a way in depth, if attempting to know what it can achieve. Some paths throw light on others, for example there are aspects of impoverishment in Buddhism, that can be highlighted from other systems. For example the idea of 'work orientated' practice is more developed in Sufism.

    The important thing for all of us is to recognize our kin. Get to the far shore and bring as many over as possible. Buddhist or not.
    mfranzdorf
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    I wouldn't agree that "the goal of every religion is essentially freedom from the flesh/world".

    Whether it's the same goal.. They say, there are many paths to the top of the mountain. Is it the same mountain or not, I don't know, but I believe it is. That is, if the path is genuine. The path and religion are not the same things.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    The Hindu Vedas suggest, "Truth is one, wise men call it by many names" ... and the audience often applauds ... yes-yes-yes, same goal, different clothing. It may be true, but in order for it to be something other than a very superficial truth, a person would have to plumb the depths of his or her personal persuasion. Intellectual and emotional applause is not enough and without something more than intellectual and emotional applause, there is simply no knowing.

    Christmas Humphreys once suggested (approximately), "All roads may lead to Rome, but you take your road and I'll take mine. Then, when we get there, we can both laugh." It's the laughter that counts, not some well-oiled hug festival.
    SattvaPaulJeffreyRebeccaSstavros388
  • Yeah I reckon all the (legitimate) religions point in the same direction.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    Yeah, I agree with the "all paths to the same top of the mountain." I absolutely believe that there is one truth, and one main goal of humans, and that is to learn love and compassion for other, and then our rebirth cycle ends. I think whatever happens after we die, happens to us all and is not conditional based on how we behave here. Obviously some people have better deaths than other, and better rebirths, but I'm talking about the basic idea of what happens to life after death. People just understand things differently. My mom is a Christian (but at this point a very "new age" one). My dad is a mix of agnostic and Pagan (but he doesn't know that, lol). We have very related conversations but we're all coming from a different angle. We still arrive at the same conclusions, just using different methods and information to get there.
  • Big difference between the goal of religion and the goal of organized religion.
    Balance_1991
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I would say there is a difference between the goal of a religion and the outcome.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I think all paths may all reach the mountain top. IMO though Buddhism takes it one step further and then says there is no mountain at all.
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Not all paths have the same result, Most of the Samsaric paths have as their ultimate destination the higher realms. Buddha Dharma has the complete freedom of Liberation and Enlightenment.
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    I think there are three or four different mountains.
    All paths do not lead to the top of the mountain.
    The path of Buddhism isn't even on the same mountain as Christianity/Islam/Judaism.
    The goal of every religion is NOT the same, in my view.
    lobsterVastmindBalance_1991
  • music said:


    Despite superficial differences, it seems that the goal of every religion is essentially freedom from the flesh/world.

    In the sense that every human has to face their mortality, we share a common goal - religion as an expression of faith (a probable outcome choice / an organisation of the unacceptably unknown) naturally serves this common goal.

    How that is expressed varies even within Buddhism, let alone across the wider spectrum of all religions.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Zero said:

    music said:


    Despite superficial differences, it seems that the goal of every religion is essentially freedom from the flesh/world.

    In the sense that every human has to face their mortality, we share a common goal - religion as an expression of faith (a probable outcome choice / an organisation of the unacceptably unknown) naturally serves this common goal.

    How that is expressed varies even within Buddhism, let alone across the wider spectrum of all religions.
    Very well phrased.

    Zero
  • I think that all religions at the very least offer a sort of code of ethics and morality as well as a purpose for many people, However, every religion has it's own goals and way to spread their message. I find Buddhism to be the only religion that doesn't feel as forceful as say Christianity and Islam, but then again what do I know I consider myself a Deist;)!
  • Tosh said:

    I think Buddhism is the only religion which claims you can reach salvation while still alive; all the rest you have to die first to get to. There could be some exceptions, but none spring to mind.

    The best one seems to be Mormonism (if we're after choosing). After you die you get to be a God, you get 100 Celestial virgins and you're own planet to populate with your off-spring from the women you have. And you're God of this planet.

    I'm not sure what happens to the Mormon women when they die though? I'll refrain from making a crass joke too.

    Really? I guess I haven't studied Mormonism enough. Mormons are a bit strange anyhow..
  • Big difference between the goal of religion and the goal of organized religion.

    Excellent point actually! There is in fact a difference between religion and organized religion. Organized Religion seems to have more of a hidden agenda to me. That's just because I prefer the spiritual approach though.
  • I think there are three or four different mountains.
    All paths do not lead to the top of the mountain.
    The path of Buddhism isn't even on the same mountain as Christianity/Islam/Judaism.
    The goal of every religion is NOT the same, in my view.

    true
  • xabirxabir Veteran
    edited December 2012
    No, not the same, not at all. Most people's spiritual goal is to attain a rebirth in one of the sensual devalokas (heaven/celestial dimension), which is one of the lower samsaric planes of heavens where the devas or celestial beings reside in. They have long lifespan but eventually pass away from that realm and be reborn again according to their karma.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Tosh said:

    ...
    The best one seems to be Mormonism (if we're after choosing). After you die you get to be a God, you get 100 Celestial virgins and you're own planet to populate with your off-spring from the women you have. And you're God of this planet.

    ...

    Can you provide a Mormon source about that teaching?

  • Tosh said:

    I think Buddhism is the only religion which claims you can reach salvation while still alive; all the rest you have to die first to get to. There could be some exceptions, but none spring to mind.

    The best one seems to be Mormonism (if we're after choosing). After you die you get to be a God, you get 100 Celestial virgins and you're own planet to populate with your off-spring from the women you have. And you're God of this planet.

    I'm not sure what happens to the Mormon women when they die though? I'll refrain from making a crass joke too.

    Really? I guess I haven't studied Mormonism enough. Mormons are a bit strange anyhow..
    Mormons are awesome! They always look so freakin happy, and then science proved that the "Mormon glow" is a real thing. Basically, you can pick the Mormon out of a group because they have a "glow" that is recognizable even to non Mormons. I don't think I've ever actually met a Mormon, but I think that whole thing is pretty cool.
  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited December 2012
    @RebeccaS said:

    Mormons are awesome! They always look so freakin happy, and then science proved that the "Mormon glow" is a real thing. Basically, you can pick the Mormon out of a group because they have a "glow" that is recognizable even to non Mormons. I don't think I've ever actually met a Mormon, but I think that whole thing is pretty cool.


    ************************


    That's not a "glow".... that's glassy eyed indoctrination at work. ;)
    RebeccaSlobsterFullCircle
  • SileSile Veteran
    edited December 2012
    The glow is characteristic of the Mormon men, but not the women, in my experience.
  • I don't think every religion is the same. It is not just that they have different names but they have very different motives and different way of achieving their motives. And I would not think that nirvana is the same as heaven. Heaven sounds more like a place; nirvana whatever it is, sounds so much like a mental state. In any case, I don't think every religion is the same just like every human is not the same despite the fact that they all have a head above their shoulders.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    music said:

    Do you feel this way, or do you feel that means and end are one?

    I suspect it's different means and ends. And that the only way to find out is through personal experience.
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited December 2012

    I think there are three or four different mountains.
    All paths do not lead to the top of the mountain.
    The path of Buddhism isn't even on the same mountain as Christianity/Islam/Judaism.
    The goal of every religion is NOT the same, in my view.

    true
    My old Zen Teacher used to say, "All paths do not lead us up the same mountain. We are, however, all lost in the same wilderness."

    Talking about the goals of religion as an institution is different from talking about the personal goals the religion contains. Any religion, like any healthy human institution or natural organism, has the overriding goal of surviving. Of perpetuating itself. People forget that. No matter what personal benefits the religion provides to the people who join, it demands in return that you contribute to the survival of the group as a whole. Even if that gets in the way of your personal goals. Loyalty always trumps ethics.

    All religions provide answers to the hard questions. It really doesn't matter what the answers the religion provides are, because most religions simply say, "Believe this, and be one of us." and what you believe isn't important, only that you become a believer. Honestly, most Buddhists in the world approach our own religion this way and see no reason or advantage to questioning any of the answers. Religion has served its purpose for them. Who am I to criticize that? Humanity has gotten by with simple devotion for all our history.
    lobstervinlyn
  • DaftChrisDaftChris Spiritually conflicted. Not of this world. Veteran
    edited December 2012
    it seems that the goal of every religion is essentially freedom from the flesh/world

    Perhaps. With the exception of a few religions, but I would consider them more like cults than a legitimate belief system, it does appear that the goal of each is roughly the same. To achieve "salvation"; whether in this life or next. But then again, is that really a bad thing? Or does it even matter in the end?

    We all walk our own Path. They will all, eventually, lead to the same destination.
    vinlyn
  • DaftChris said:

    it seems that the goal of every religion is essentially freedom from the flesh/world

    Perhaps. With the exception of a few religions, but I would consider them more like cults than a legitimate belief system, it does appear that the goal of each is roughly the same. To achieve "salvation"; whether in this life or next. But then again, is that really a bad thing? Or does it even matter in the end?

    We all walk our own Path. They will all, eventually, lead to the same destination.

    "...to the same destination--to the grave."

    Sorry, I couldn't resist ending that with my own particular twist. And really, isn't that the universal bond that holds true, no matter what Path we walk?
    DaftChris
  • I fear that you will not reach Mecca, O Nomad!
    For the road which you are following leads to Turkestan!
    Bodhisattva Saadi

    Whatever path on the silk road we are on,
    we all assume we are going forward?

    I am not even sure I am in the right country
    . . . can not even find the mountain :)

    first there was one
    then they lost it
    then I thought I might go around it . . .
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited December 2012
    music said:

    Despite superficial differences, it seems that the goal of every religion is essentially freedom from the flesh/world. Buddhists call that state nibanna, others call it heaven. If we accept this, we also have to accept that just about any method would do, and Buddhism is simply one such method. If a guy could attain this end by standing upside down (not to be confused with yoga), that too would be a valid means.

    Do you feel this way, or do you feel that means and end are one?

    From my point of view, I'd say that most religions have a similar tendency in that they attempt to deal with the existence of human suffering in some shape or form; but they differ as to how they address this issue (often radically), and some methods may be more effective than others, so I wouldn't go so far as to say that "just about any method would do." I don't think it hurts to explore what other religions have to offer, however, especially the places where divergent religions and philosophies seem to agree.
    vinlyn
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    Just because someone believes differently doesn't mean the result is different. I believe in rebirth/reincarnation. I do not believe that I will reincarnate just because I believe in it, but that my mom will not because she does not believe in it. I believe people can become enlightened without being Buddhist. If someone lives a good life, if someone follows the Eight Fold Path without knowing they are following it, they still gain merit, they still gain a favorable rebirth and they still have the ability to attain enlightenment. Buddha nature is within all of us, whether we are Buddhist, Christian, Mormon, Muslim, Wiccan, Atheist, etc. You can follow the path and lead a good life without even knowing a word of what any religion says. That is what I meant when I said I agree that all paths lead to the same mountain top.
    DaftChris
  • My view would be that the scriptures of the all major religions can be interpreted as saying the same thing and pointing in the same direction, and that this is the correct intepretation. Indeed, I'd say it is a useful way of testing ones interpretation, that there ceases to be a conflict between the different religions. But many other interpretations are possible, and for every one there is a school of thought, and for sure not every school of thought points in the same direction.

  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    The way I see it Most religions all are ment to end in slavation but the ways of getting their are different. In Abrahamic religions God leads you to salvation where in Buddhism you reach salvation by yourself.
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    Salvation*
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    Is the goal of every religion the same?

    Only if all the different religions to used the same goal posts.
    .
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    Hate coming back too late to correct a posting.. Should be...

    Only if all the different religions used the same goal posts.
  • No, but their origin is always the same - fear of death.
  • Most of us in truth do not engage in our path to the extent required. The Indian sage Ramana Maharshi once said that the spiritual aspirant must want liberation like a drowning man wants air. Most of us are undecided whether we want enlightenment or an Ipad mini . . . The consequences of genuine aspiration and application are inevitable. However most of us are hypocrites. Buddhists that eat meat, break precepts, judge others and are petty and deluded . . . or maybe that is just me . . .
    That is why I consider myself a non-buddhist, I am not prepared to drown. I need a raft, a refuge, a sangha, a teacher, an exemplar
    . . . maybe after I get an Android tablet . . . :-/
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