What do you think of a Buddha in a bar?

footiam

Some people complained about a bar bearing Buddha's name. http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=115572:outraged-seai-kie-demands-closure-of-buddha-bar&Itemid=2#axzz2Yx3rNrG4
What do you think of a bar with Buddha'name or one having a statue of Buddha in it?

lobster

assuming they will be playing Buddha Bar


I don't care one way or the other, it is not my business

person

There was a nightclub in town that was named Karma. In it there were frequently fights and gang activity, all sorts of nefarious goings ons that would get the police called in. In the end it had to close.

More to the point, when I was a stoner I had a bong that was a statue of a seated fat Buddha with the pipe coming out of his stomach and you'd take a hit from the top of his head; also an alternate word for pot is buddha. Thinking back on these things now it does seem kind of disrespectful to associate drugs with Buddha. But hopefully following the teachings of Buddhism would give one a broader more relaxed perspective so one doesn't feel the need to throw a hissy fit over the name of a bar.

Hmm, smoking pot gives one a relaxed perspective too... I wonder? :scratch:

riverflow

I have no pearls to clutch.

Chaz

footiam said:

Some people complained about a bar bearing Buddha's name. http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=115572:outraged-seai-kie-demands-closure-of-buddha-bar&Itemid=2#axzz2Yx3rNrG4
What do you think of a bar with Buddha'name or one having a statue of Buddha in it?

There's a hybrid strain of Marijuana called "Buddha". A whole family of hybrids are derived from that strain. Pretty good stuff or so I'm told.

I don't care what they call it.

I don't care if they name a bar Buddha.
I don't care of they have a statue of the Buddha in a bar.
I don't care of they held meditation practice or performed puja in a bar.

There are some stuffy, prudish, "Buddhists" who will object.

And I don't care about that, either.

rivercane

Personally, it bothers me. I think it's disrespectful.

vinlyn

rivercane said:

Personally, it bothers me. I think it's disrespectful.

I agree.

It bothers me not because Buddha might not like it...though I think he would dislike it since it goes against one of his principal Precepts. It bothers me because Buddha is someone who many people respect and honor, and we ought to have a little concern for the feelings of others...that's compassion, too.

I'm glad that I respect the beliefs of others. And if that makes me "stuffy" and "prudish", then I'm proud to be "stuffy" and "prudish".

karmablues

I too feel it's disrespectful. I personally wouldn't get into a fight with someone over it though, but I can understand the reaction this may provoke amongst some Malay Buddhists. Just imagine the kind of reaction one can expect from most Malay Muslims if the bar had instead been named "Allah's Bar". If a multi-religious society is to live harmoniously together in peace, people should be sensitive to the feelings of others and avoid acts that may be deemed as disrespectful.

zombiegirl

Huhh. I just realized that there is a Buddha statue in one of the bars that I frequent. It's over by one of the seating areas and is quite large. I just never thought to be offended.

Daozen

Whatever. Buddha wouldn't care.

wrathfuldeity

There is the left handed path....some reference that it is particularily effective in the dark age.

Zenshin

When I used to be a stoner I went to an underground rave night called escape from samsara. With all the pills and pot that went down there I don't think anyone ever did though. Personally I don't think the Buddha would care - he would just have compassion for those suffering from attachment and desire in the bar.

riverflow

Does it indicate disrespect? Certainly.

Do *I* feel offended? No.

Why should I expect non-Buddhists to kowtow to what *I* think? Where does such an expectation come from and why?

vinlyn

riverflow said:

Does it indicate disrespect? Certainly.

Do *I* feel offended? No.

Why should I expect non-Buddhists to kowtow to what *I* think? Where does such an expectation come from and why?

Using that logic, I assume you use the "N-word" frequently?

Or is it okay to disrespect someone's religion, but not okay to disrespect someone's race?

We get to decided what aspects of a person is okay to disrespect?

riverflow

vinlyn said:

Using that logic, I assume you use the "N-word" frequently?

Or is it okay to disrespect someone's religion, but not okay to disrespect someone's race?

We get to decided what aspects of a person is okay to disrespect?

No, the logic doesn't follow because the N-word's use has ties to threats and oppression. Racists who use the word understand this (even when they feign ignorance of history or willfully distort it). historically the word hasn't been used merely to "offend" but to intimidate, to show "who's really boss," to "put them in their place" (I know this all too well, living in the south--this stuff hasn't gone away)

So to call that "disrespectful" understates the actual use of that epithet--the word has a specific context, particularly when used by non-blacks. The same goes for any form other form of bullying--such speech, when used as a form of coercion, one shouldn't tolerate.

Even still, the importance lies in the harm (to individuals and to society), not in "being offended." I'll "defend someone's right to be wrong" as the saying goes, so long as it doesn't involve threatening people with physical or psychological harm. I see no threat of violence or oppression against Buddhists here because of a bar using Buddhist iconography. I can't expect people to have the same respect that I might have for such things--so I can't get offended.

vinlyn

riverflow said:

vinlyn said:

Using that logic, I assume you use the "N-word" frequently?

Or is it okay to disrespect someone's religion, but not okay to disrespect someone's race?

We get to decided what aspects of a person is okay to disrespect?

No, the logic doesn't follow because the N-word's use has ties to threats and oppression. Racists who use the word understand this (even when they feign ignorance of history or willfully distort it). historically the word hasn't been used merely to "offend" but to intimidate, to show "who's really boss," to "put them in their place" (I know this all too well, living in the south--this stuff hasn't gone away)

So to call that "disrespectful" understates the actual use of that epithet--the word has a specific context, particularly when used by non-blacks. The same goes for any form other form of bullying--such speech, when used as a form of coercion, one shouldn't tolerate.

Even still, the importance lies in the harm (to individuals and to society), not in "being offended." I'll "defend someone's right to be wrong" as the saying goes, so long as it doesn't involve threatening people with physical or psychological harm. I see no threat of violence or oppression against Buddhists here because of a bar using Buddhist iconography. I can't expect people to have the same respect that I might have for such things--so I can't get offended.

I guess we were just raised differently. I was raised to respect every aspect of a person -- their race, their religion, their abilities (or lack thereof), their nationality...you name it. Am I always successful in fulfilling that goal of true respect...of course not...but I try, and I don't assume that people of other cultures have less of an ability to understand my or someone else's belief systems. And I can't help but remember when I was a child, and I feel short, my grandmother would say, "You ought to know better", or "You've been taught better than that."

riverflow

vinlyn said:

I guess we were just raised differently. I was raised to respect every aspect of a person -- their race, their religion, their abilities (or lack thereof), their nationality...you name it.

*I* do try to have respect and I have expressed it throughout my life in various ways--and what I personally value has no relevance here. What I value and what you value have nothing anything to do with what others may (or may not value).

I don't think I should play the role of the "respect police" with others who don't know any better (even if they should). That remains only up to them to discover for themselves. Enforcing something like "blasphemy laws" certainly won't teach that--at best, it might send the message that Buddhists (or whatever religious group) can't take the heat and have to resort to force give them the respect they believe they deserve.

Seneca once wrote to the effect that you will find nothing so holy and venerated that someone won't come along and profane. At my job my (new) boss and a couple fellow employees now know that I practice Buddhism (not that I've advertised that fact, but I no longer hide it like a dirty secret either). My boss said something the other day (I don't even recall the context now) but something about finding me in my office meditating and she made odd humming noises. I don't think she intended any harm in poking fun at me, and it didn't bother me. Should it bother me? If it did, that could indicate I an attachment to my image as a Buddhist. She doesn't know any better-- even if she should know better. Life goes on.

vinlyn

riverflow said:

...what I personally value has no relevance here. What I value and what you value have nothing anything to do with what others may (or may not value).

...

This is exactly where -- in my view -- you don't get it. It isn't important whether what you view as important is actually important. It isn't important whether what I view as important is actually important.

What's important is that you respect another person enough to have respect for their feelings and emotions.

Internally I have certain perspectives on the Muslim religion (for example). I don't need to tell Imran all of my perspectives on that. I respect Imran enough to say, "Well, I have different beliefs, but I can see that Islam is important to you. So, if you take me to the mosque, I will spend my time there respectfully." Or when Imran visits my home he will see the copy of the Koran he gave me in a place with equal respect as my books on Buddhism and Christianity.

I'm not expressing respect for Islam. I'm respecting the other person and their feelings and what's important to them, and saying their feelings are just as important as mine. And that's compassion.

Anything less is an act of lack of self-control...a central tenet in Buddhism.

I've expressed my feelings adequately on this. Nothing more to say to you on it.

riverflow

vinlyn said:

What's important is that you respect another person enough to have respect for their feelings and emotions.

I don't think I suggested I felt otherwise. I feel the precise same way as you on this. You won't get any argument from me on how *I* behave in such situation. The disrespectful attitudes of others such as in this bar present another matter altogether.

Anyway, I've also been in many situations going to mosques, synagogues, various churches and behaved in a respectful manner toward the individuals, even when I had little comprehension of the significance of certain images or rituals.

--except for one time--and I learned an important lesson that day. And I should have known better (I had to learn the hard way I suppose). I still cringe at what I had done that day.

My confession: Back in 1997, intoxicated with my much more "sophisticated theology" that I thought made me more special than other Christians, me and an acquaintance and her sister went to a Pentacostal church (in Monroe, Louisiana-- the buckle of the Bible Belt I'd say) with the intent of "blending in" with the crowd, to roll around, speak in tongues, yell out "amen!"-- to deliberately go out of our way to make fun of them. We arrived, had a seat in one of the pews (the usher was very nice). It seemed so hilarious to me when we discussed doing this the night beforehand, but now the abstraction fell away and here I was with flesh and blood human beings, with family, feelings, their own struggles in life. Just ordinary people. The service began with music and I felt sick to my stomach as C. and her sister began acting up, giggling with each other. I got up, saying I had to go to the bathroom (which I did do, because I felt nauseous). Then I left the church and wandered the streets for awhile reflecting on what I had engaged in. No one at the church knew-- but *I* did. I ended up at a friend's art gallery in that part of town and I told her what I had done and how ill I felt doing it (I remember clearly drinking soy milk for the first time at her place which I didn't like! ha). But I was so caught up in the notion of my own superiority compared to "those country bumpkins" that I lost sight of the real human beings.

So much for my "sophisticated theology."

Jeffrey

One time when I binge drunk because I found my ex cheating on me I was out with the guy she cheated with (go figure). I was a super lightweight compared to this guy as he drank a half handle a day! This was a fucked up time in my life, but I still meditated and read things about Buddhism. Anyhow at the bar with this random guy (not the guy I was in a love triangle with) I got in a discussion with a guy and he insulted the Buddha. I threw a drink in his face and then he would have kicked my ass but this guy in the love triangle showed rose up and literally flung half of the people in the bar to the floor. It was like a tidal wave. This guy was huge and he said ex navy seal, but I doubt that, still reality can be stranger than fiction (except John Irving fiction )

Jeffrey

wrathfuldeity said:

There is the left handed path....some reference that it is particularily effective in the dark age.

Can you say anything about right and left paths? Please; I am very interested.

Cinorjer

footiam said:

Some people complained about a bar bearing Buddha's name. http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=115572:outraged-seai-kie-demands-closure-of-buddha-bar&Itemid=2#axzz2Yx3rNrG4
What do you think of a bar with Buddha'name or one having a statue of Buddha in it?

I think it's a lousy name for a bar, but what do I know?

As for a statue of the Buddha in a bar, is it holding or advertising alcoholic drinks? No? Then why should I care? It's not my bar. That would be like a picture of Jesus in a bar here in the USA. An unusual choice, but maybe a good place for one. If you're in a church, you already are reminded of the divine just by being there.

Maybe seeing the Buddha will cause someone to stop and think twice about drinking to heedlessness.

footiam

lobster said:

assuming they will be playing Buddha Bar


I don't care one way or the other, it is not my business

That reminds me of the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan. I always think that the Buddhists there don't care. That's why I suppose there is no Buddhist there now and even the last standing Buddha statue had collapsed.

charirama

It would not be my choice but I'm okay with someone else choosing to do so.

There are probably situations where I too use a symbol out of context because I do not fully understand the significance others may place on it.

Jeffrey

I threw a drink (back in the olden days) on someone once because they insulted Buddha. It was right after my girlfriend cheated on me so I plea the insanity defense.

seeker242

Was the owner of the bar intentionally trying to be disrespectful? Highly unlikely!

The Buddha would probably say "Don't be so attached to words!"

Lonely_Traveller said:

Personally I don't think the Buddha would care - he would just have compassion for those suffering from attachment and desire in the bar.

Probably also have compassion for those whose minds are suffering from aversion attachment to the name.

Jeffrey

@seeker, no it wasn't the owner, just a patron. There was no reason to do that, I was three sheets to the wind or as my lovely undergrad friend would say: FUBAR-ed. (google)

footiam

person said:

There was a nightclub in town that was named Karma. In it there were frequently fights and gang activity, all sorts of nefarious goings ons that would get the police called in. In the end it had to close.

More to the point, when I was a stoner I had a bong that was a statue of a seated fat Buddha with the pipe coming out of his stomach and you'd take a hit from the top of his head; also an alternate word for pot is buddha. Thinking back on these things now it does seem kind of disrespectful to associate drugs with Buddha. But hopefully following the teachings of Buddhism would give one a broader more relaxed perspective so one doesn't feel the need to throw a hissy fit over the name of a bar.

Hmm, smoking pot gives one a relaxed perspective too... I wonder? :scratch:

It looks like it would do good if we learn to respect. A statue of Buddha would be a good teaching tool.

cedartower

Why should we be upset by something like this? If it is insulting it's not us that is doing it it is the other person's ignorance and they are to be pitied for it. I would rather see this kind of thing that not see it. It gives Buddha and Buddhism a friendly acceptable face. Who knows who may be inspired to look into Buddhism because of it.

footiam

riverflow said:

I have no pearls to clutch.

Me, too. I just have some old photos that are more valuable.

how

I think a bar with a Buddha name or a statue would be ok for a Buddha only bar.

OK, I never claimed to be a businessman.

ThailandTom

Does that mean the music label 'BuddhaBar' also has to be shunned because it uses the word 'Buddha' in their name even though they have some pretty decent music produced? These things are empty, they are just statues or words, who gives a shit? I don't.

how

@ThailandTom

We finally have a way of soring out the other thread on how many Buddha's can share the same time line...(with a simple patron count)..
and you don't give a........?

ThailandTom

how said:

@ThailandTom

We finally have a way of soring out the other thread on how many Buddha's can share the same time line...(with a simple patron count)..
and you don't give a........?

I do not have a clue what you are talking about, honestly I don't :-/

vinlyn

ThailandTom said:

how said:

@ThailandTom

We finally have a way of soring out the other thread on how many Buddha's can share the same time line...(with a simple patron count)..
and you don't give a........?

I do not have a clue what you are talking about, honestly I don't :-/

You are not alone!

how

@ Thailand & vinlyn
The adjacent thread A question about more then one Buddha states the idea that only one Buddha can exist at a time.
If there was a bar that only allowed Buddhas inside, and there was more than one patron found inside, then we'd finally have the proof that Buddhas can really share the same time line.
Sheesh...you guys are a hard audience.

ThailandTom

how said:

@ Thailand & vinlyn
The adjacent thread A question about more then one Buddha states the idea that only one Buddha can exist at a time.
If there was a bar that only allowed Buddhas inside, and there was more than one patron found inside, then we'd finally have the proof that Buddhas can really share the same time line.
Sheesh...you guys are a hard audience.

Oh well sorry it was a combination of me not having read that other thread and also the fact the internet can be monotone at times making humor hard to detect :vimp:

vinlyn

how said:

@ Thailand & vinlyn
The adjacent thread A question about more then one Buddha states the idea that only one Buddha can exist at a time.
If there was a bar that only allowed Buddhas inside, and there was more than one patron found inside, then we'd finally have the proof that Buddhas can really share the same time line.
Sheesh...you guys are a hard audience.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

JoyfulGirl

We have all buddha nature, and I like to go to bars and pubs!

Jeffrey

Yes but is there a cocktail named "a Buddha"..

Chaz

Jeffrey said:

Yes but is there a cocktail named "a Buddha"..

There's also a domestic strain of pot called "Buddha".

SnowLioness

As I understand things, Buddha would mind more that we are making statues of him, when he asked that we not do that. Putting one in a bar is secondary to that, hmmmm?

vinlyn

SnowLioness said:

As I understand things, Buddha would mind more that we are making statues of him, when he asked that we not do that. Putting one in a bar is secondary to that, hmmmm?

Not quite sure I'd agree with that. It is one thing to make a statue of a person out of respect, quite another thing to make a statue of the same person who eschewed the use of intoxicating substances for the very purpose of selling intoxicating substances.

Citta

I am thinking about launching a new spread for bread called 'I Can't Believe It's Not Buddha' .

Vastmind

There is an over-priced jean Co. here called
True Religion... that puts a pic
of Buddha on the back pocket... $350 for pants
with Buddha on your butt. haha Go figure...

vinlyn

Citta said:

I am thinking about launching a new spread for bread called 'I Can't Believe It's Not Buddha' .

Actually, there's an old Red Skelton joke along those lines...not sure if it will work in writing (try to just read it phoenetically). You have to imagine these two Texans with their heavy drawl sitting out on the porch.

Sam: Say Hank, I wanna ask ya somthin I ben thinkin bout.
Hank: Yah, whats that?
Sam: I been thinkin bout buddah.
Hank: Buddah?
Sam: Yah. You ever thunk much about buddah?
Hank: Ya. Liddle bit.
Sam: So what ya think about buddah?
Hank: Buddah. Hmmmm. Buddah's okay. Yeah, I like buddah.
Sam: I agree. Buddah's the right way ta go.
Hank: Well, not sure bout that.
Sam: Why not?
Hank: Margarine's okay, too, cept for Sunday dinnah.

footiam

person said:

There was a nightclub in town that was named Karma. In it there were frequently fights and gang activity, all sorts of nefarious goings ons that would get the police called in. In the end it had to close.

More to the point, when I was a stoner I had a bong that was a statue of a seated fat Buddha with the pipe coming out of his stomach and you'd take a hit from the top of his head; also an alternate word for pot is buddha. Thinking back on these things now it does seem kind of disrespectful to associate drugs with Buddha. But hopefully following the teachings of Buddhism would give one a broader more relaxed perspective so one doesn't feel the need to throw a hissy fit over the name of a bar.

Hmm, smoking pot gives one a relaxed perspective too... I wonder? :scratch:

We have to learn respect somewhere. Most probably, the ancients began with a statue and proceed to mankind.

Princely

I feel there is an element of disrespect but it does little to effect me on a deep level and may even be the catlyst for new buddhists . . . maybe.

There has been much mention of the fith precept. I have the ocasional drink but maintain mindfulness, everything in moderation (middle path), each to their own and all that.

Let the bar be called, let the venders be profitable and the customers have fun. We know the teachings and continue to work helping ourselfs develop and others find happiness. Let Karma do its thing.

footiam

Chaz said:

footiam said:

Some people complained about a bar bearing Buddha's name. http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=115572:outraged-seai-kie-demands-closure-of-buddha-bar&Itemid=2#axzz2Yx3rNrG4
What do you think of a bar with Buddha'name or one having a statue of Buddha in it?

There's a hybrid strain of Marijuana called "Buddha". A whole family of hybrids are derived from that strain. Pretty good stuff or so I'm told.

I don't care what they call it.

I don't care if they name a bar Buddha.
I don't care of they have a statue of the Buddha in a bar.
I don't care of they held meditation practice or performed puja in a bar.

There are some stuffy, prudish, "Buddhists" who will object.

And I don't care about that, either.

I don't care about lots of things too and sometimes that allow other more patronising people to ruin my life. And then, I think I deserve it because I don't care.

jae

I havent had time to read all the posts but if hes that wise I reckon he'd laugh his head off

jae

Do you really think anyone that practises Buddhism would put/use the image this way?

Well I don't they just dont know... they probably think its cool, I would doubt they would have any disrespect or even know the first thing about it