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How do I know if im doing it right
banned_crab
Veteran
Ive been meditating for about a week and usually it feels pretty alright. I go for 10 min to an hour. I feel somewhat relaxed but also pressured to consistently keep focus on my breath, so im never entirely relaxed. I am obsessed with trying to attain the first jhana, sometimes I think I have reached it but Im not even sure I understand the whole concept of it.
I just dont understand how im supposed to feel during meditation, especially when I am a beginner. I also want to avoid stagnation so I strive to ascend and reach the first jhana. Maybe you can help .
-Ascending to the next level
>So to achieve this jhana I should keep concentration on my breath until my mind goes into that quiet state right?
(I just feel the thinker being very quiet and thoughts disperse than quickly disintegrate .)
> What do I do at this point?
(I also feel like i might be so focused on trying to get to the next step that it hinders me from ascending.)
>When striving to achieve the first jhana (or just improving my basic meditation) which methods are most effective?
>Is it generally better to meditate eyes open or closed?
any extra tips or the sharing of personal meditation experiences are very much appreciated.
I just dont understand how im supposed to feel during meditation, especially when I am a beginner. I also want to avoid stagnation so I strive to ascend and reach the first jhana. Maybe you can help .
-Ascending to the next level
>So to achieve this jhana I should keep concentration on my breath until my mind goes into that quiet state right?
(I just feel the thinker being very quiet and thoughts disperse than quickly disintegrate .)
> What do I do at this point?
(I also feel like i might be so focused on trying to get to the next step that it hinders me from ascending.)
>When striving to achieve the first jhana (or just improving my basic meditation) which methods are most effective?
>Is it generally better to meditate eyes open or closed?
any extra tips or the sharing of personal meditation experiences are very much appreciated.
0
Comments
From my own experience, I have found it more helpful to not set goals in meditation. Just trust the method, and when the fruit is ripe, it will fall in its own time. Setting goals means having a concern for some anticipated future event, which distracts me from meditating right here and right now.
I play the shakuhachi, a Japanese flute, sometimes for meditative purposes. When I begin to play, I don't think about getting to the end of a piece or playing the overall piece "just right"-- instead, I focus on THIS note that I play at THIS moment, and then the next note, and so on. I remain focused on just that one note I play right then--nothing else matters.
By analogy, I would say I have a similar approach to the breath in sitting meditation. Only one breath exists, the one that happens right now.
At least this seems to work for me. I like Chan/Zen because I like things simple. But others have helpful methods that may work differently from mine.
1. The word "Buddha" means "awake." Awake is just awake, regardless of any realm or attainment.
2. In the beginning, there is often a period of some confusion, so a format is useful. For example, it might be better to pick a specific amount of time for meditation and then sit for that long ... not shorter and not longer. 20-30 minutes might be OK.
3. Once having determined to sit for a given amount of time at a particular time of day, then do it: Make a promise, keep a promise.
4. At first, less is probably better than more ... so, maybe once a day or once every other day is enough. At the end of the week, review how things went ... was it too much, was it too little, should you add more sitting or subtract some, etc.? Revise the next week's effort accordingly ... and then review at the end of that week.
5. Everyone feels like a phony at first. Where big dreams collide with in-your-face facts like sitting ... well, it can be confusing. Addressing that confusion is sometimes helped by learning to count the breath ... count exhalations mentally from one to ten and begin again. If you choose to make this your practice, do not be dissuaded from it no matter how big and wonderful the other ideas you encounter may be. Pick a practice and practice it.
6. At first, in my opinion, meditation with the eyes open is better. Besides sidestepping the snooze/daydreaming factor, eyes-open will make you strong.
7. Courage, patience and doubt are yours for the asking ... use these good friends and be determined in your effort.
8. To the extent you imagine you are going someplace "else," -- to some new and improved realm -- you may know you are off course and it is time to return to practice.
9. An old Zen saying goes, "Having some attainment is the jackal's yelp. Having no attainment is the lions roar." Here's hoping you are awake and keeping company with the lions.
Your right, I should only strive to trust in the method. The meditation isnt a means to attain goals, the meditation is the goal.
Thanks for the tips, ive been doing all that for the most part so its good to know im doing it correctly, at least in your own idea.
But are you sure I should go eyes open? when I go eyes open I get distracted by the focus of my vision changing from blurry to more focused(if you know what I mean).
I just want to use the method that will allow me to experience rapture and other crazy stuff.
If you get tired of focussing on the breath, you can switch (after you've settled down, and you're calm and you've been focussing on the breath a few minutes) to focussing on an image, like the Buddha, the Dalai Lama, a flower, a candleflame. When the mind wanders, bring it back to the object of your focus. Keep it up until you can stay focussed for 20 minutes. Then pick a more complex image, with more detail. Imagine all the detail in your mind. 20-30 minutes, without breaking concentration.
Just achieving that much should keep you busy for a few months to a year, if you're typical.
While it is true that many use spiritual life as a comic-book escape hatch, that doesn't mean you have to be a jerk as well.
Pick a practice and practice it.
First you must know there is all but agreement on what jhana is. This in itself says a lot about it, but that aside.
When first starting meditation it is easy to fall into the common misconception that in meditation we are doing things to achieve things. Understandable, because that's how other things in life are. You cook to get food, you think to get answers, you study to get a job etc. Therefore you ask "what do I do at this point?"
But meditation is not like this. It is not about doing things, it is not about making the mind peaceful. It is about letting the mind become peaceful without you interfering or you steering it. Because every time you interfere, you destroy the peace. It is also a sign of craving to be somewhere else than you are now. And on a more deeper level, this craving is exactly what in Buddhism one is to uproot.
Sure, you can get to a certain point of stillness with doing, with steering, with you relaxing the mind. But it will get stuck on a certain level, because "you" are always there. So it will never give the deepest fruits of meditation. For that you have to let go. "You" have to disappear. By its very nature the mind will then be able to become really still. More still than you can now even imagine. Then perhaps a jhana can happen, but not because you desire it or you create it. If you feel like you steered towards it or you experienced it, it is not a jhana. Jhana is without 'you' being there to watch it. This sounds very odd probably, but this is how it goes if you can let go.
Remember also that jhana is the last factor of the Buddhist 8-fold path. A path that by all means is not easy. So the last factor, samadhi or jhana, is also not something one reaches easily. Probably you will have to meditate for years to even get a sense of what it is. Not to discourage you, but I think the danger of your overestimation is bigger than the danger of me discouraging you. There is also plenty of peace to have before that time.
So have fun meditating!
With metta,
Sabre
If you've just started to meditate - hell, even if you've meditated for years - I wouldn't worry about stagnation. Just focus on your breath (if that's the type of meditation you're doing, which it sounds like it is) and the associated sensations arising and falling. Progress will come naturally without you needing to force it. Just keep a consistent practice with good effort.
I just want to improve myself and stagnation is me not improving.
All that is pretty wordy. I think you could paraphrase it by saying "What is right effort? Herein a monk puts forth will, strives, stirs up energy, strengthens his mind, exerts himself to...improve oneself"
:om:
In all other things, you put forth power to progress, and by progressing you accumulate things, you get things. But in meditation you leave things behind. You let things go. So progress is being able to let go more. And stagnation is thus not being able to let go more. What you also need to let go is the wish for progress itself. So that's why worrying about stagnation in itself can be a cause of stagnation. It seems like a contradiction almost, but this is how it goes.
You can judge if your meditation is going well by what feelings arise during meditation. If feelings of peace and contentment arise, you are going in the right direction. If feelings of pressure or not being steady come up, that's not the right direction.
Being without thoughts is not necessarily a good indicator for going in the right direction because you can also suppress thoughts by (unknowingly) using force. But that way it will not give rise to the mind going further into peace. You can't do meditation. Many people thus agree the word "concentration" is a very bad translation (it was initially made up by people who didn't meditate). What we do in meditation is not really a concentration training. It is more a training to let go of aversion and craving.
I hope this helps a bit.
We wish for good weather each day, but it isn't always good. You can even breath in the stagnation and say "stagnation I see you and I am going to sit with you. You are just impermanent feeling or self-judgement"... I am going to do it no matter how long it takes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śīla
keep us posted
http://aromeditation.org/
Meditation is the same way. We sit and watch our minds, when we find ourselves getting distracted and carried away in thought we let go and return our focus onto our breath or whatever our object of focus is. Doing this over and over is practice for us to be able to let go in our everyday life.
It isn't really something you can just do, it takes practice to learn how to do it.
Patience, grasshopper.
On a serious note @heyimacrab, the intent to begin a meditation practice is a first step to "letting go." You're letting go of societal expectations to be busy, to be ego-centred, etc. At first, you can feel the letting go of some anxieties and worries that plague you in your day-to-day life. It makes you want to get more serious about meditation.
What we're telling you is that this desire to do more letting go (i.e. entering jhanas) requires just that very thing - letting go of the expectation to let go.
It's all easy advice for us to dole out, but ultimately you have to understand through practice & experience what we're talking about when we say "let go."
Ajahn Brahm (among other teachers) gives a great example about letting go in meditation practice. The more we try and control our practice, the less still and clear our minds/practice become.
I'm curious what you mean when you say letting go "feels like im numbing the desires, expectations and disappointments." Letting go doesn't mean ignoring/stamping out what feelings/desires arise and pass away. It means that you just leave them be and see them for what they are, without chasing after them or pushing them out.
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
As for getting somewhere in Buddhism and with your meditation ... expect it to take 3-8 years to even start to get somewhere. This is the work of a lifetime, not of a week. Stop trying to "get somewhere", stop trying to "achieve", stop trying to measure how you are doing. Just learn to BE. And every time your attention wanders off and you pull it back to the task of meditating, this is GOOD .. what you are doing is creating the HABIT of being mindful. This is not done in a day, nor even in a year. Our usual habitual way of thinking is the result of all the years of your life .. perhaps the result of countless lifetimes of a certain way of being and thinking. Things do not change overnight. It is said that enlightenment is the result of lifetimes of working towards enlightenment, so don't be in such a hurry.
Perhaps a more intuitive way to understand letting go is to be contented with whatever arises.
Having said that, letting go is not the only aspect to meditation, sometimes we need a bit of effort, sometimes a bit of control, but in the end letting go is something we have to learn. Also in the old texts the Buddha said letting go will give rise to the peaceful meditation states.
Hold on with all your might.
Practice.
See what happens.
Read them carefully to decide if meditation is right for you.
If it is, masticate and digest both of them well for few other writings will so aptly answer the right & the wrong of your meditation in life.
Meditation opens one up to a fluidic reality that defies conventional referentially.
Here all hopes of spiritual acquisition through meditation will limit the meditative process.
Meditation is just how we stop participating in our own identity maintenance program.
Arising judgements & manipulations of any phenomena in meditation are a normal part of the practise and will fade as we learn how to stop empowering them.
Trying to figure out where you are in meditation is really just your identity trying to co-opt a threatening meditation process.
Be Warned...It often does a good imitation of the "We are Borg, you will be assimilated".
My teacher never meditated but I was never with him when he was not meditative or mindful.
Personally I only meditate to appear cool and chill.
Yesterday I used some noisy 'Zen' breath counting app, today I will just quietly for a while, so no one will notice . . . especially 'me'.
:clap:
Once this happens, all that other stuff, that seemed so significant a moment ago, disappears in the blink of an eye. Completely gone, just like that. Just by returning to the breathing.
You really don't even have to worry about letting go. Letting go happens automatically, all by itself, just by returning to the breathing. Just by returning to the breathing alone, the letting go is inevitable. This is how I do it anyway. Just return to the breathing and that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Very simple.
CLICK TO youtube.com/joseph goldstein guided meditation
My prediction is you wont get jhanas
until at least 6 mths later.
the thing is to observe your own mind.
get to know this stranger who lives inside your head.
what is he up to now?
meditation feels like nothing to a beginner.
it feels like a waste of time.
so, be patient and persevere.
find a teacher, i recommend Thanissaro bikkhu of accesstoinsight.com
When I took up the clarinet as an adult I couldn't get a note out of the damn thing for a week. Then I had a lesson. My teachers advice, after some words about embouchure etc, was to keep going until I made a decent note and then remember what I did. Perhaps this would be reasonable advice for meditation in some situations.
I suspect that beginner's mind is the crucial thing. Without that we are likely to meet imaginary obstacles of our own making. Like worrying about achieving jhanas before we even have a clue what we're worrying about. .