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Buddhist behaviour within a Church
Cobaltsword
Explorer
This is something that has plagued me for a while now.
How should a buddhist behave when inside a christian church, apart from the obvious respect for the religion. Like when you're in a wedding (soon to come, need to go to my gf's brother's wedding) and when they ask to perform the cross, what should you do? I tended to bow my head with palms pressed together in front of me, because i didn't know what to do.
It's possible i'm over thinking this, but i'm just that kind of person 
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Comments
When in Rome....
There's nothing wrong with joining in....
Do you exchange gifts at Christmas, and enjoy family get-togethers at Easter/thanksgiving? see what I did there?
So....It's just an embracing gesture, a mark of respect.
When I go see my Mother, she goes to church on Sunday, like the good R.Catholic woman she is.
If ever I've given her a lift, I've participated in the service, save for Holy Communion.
you don't have to participate in anything;but support without prejudice, and acknowledge they have the right to worship, just as much as you have a right to meditate....
I am a combination of a Christian-Buddhist, but there are things I don't believe in in certain Christian churches. In terms of behavioral things, I just don't do what I don't believe in. I still stand if they are standing, and as you suggest, act peaceful and respectful when something is going on that I don't agree with. I learn and meditate.
And yes, you're probably over-thinking it...just as I do.
You're right. You're overthinking this.
It's about them. Not you.
Go along with whatever they're doing.
Apart from the baby sacrifices, of course.....
Well that would be a first see for me at a wedding.. :hair: ... hahaha
It's never really been too much of an issue for me but then the only reason I'd be at one of these churches is for a wedding. I act as if I'm anywhere else and just try not to let on that the dead guy on the cross gives me the creeps.
I don't agree with that.
If it's time for the sign of the cross, and you do the sign of the cross but don't believe in the Holy Trinity...to me that's tantamount to lying.
If it's time for the Holy Apostolic Creed, why would you as a non-believer state out loud: " I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day, He rose again. He ascended to Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen."?
It shouldn't, when you consider the different meditative methods we as Buddhist have, to come to terms with the termporary nature of the body.... meditation in charnel grounds, visualising old age and decay....
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/khantipalo/wheel271.html
'tantamount to lying' .... I don't mind being called a liar when participating/supporting someone else. Sorry, if that bugs you.
Why would I as a non-believer.....? Most of the Christian services I attend are funerals and weddings of not Catholics...but Baptists. Not alot there to memorize. I do know the songs and will happily sing along. Why? Once again...I'm there to support them and participate in their ceromonies. I know that when I accept the invite.... Just the cost of doing relationship/social business with friends and family. I'm a fierce Buddhist practioner and frankly, what I do there doesn't sink in like that....I don't take it home with me when I leave. Sometimes I skim over the readings...but most of the time...I show up and I'm all in. I'm there for them and what this represents for them. Not me.
I'm not saying this approach works for everyone...but I'm a pretty popular non-believer amongst the believers in this town, ...Buddhist to boot...so I must be doing something right...lololol
I'll stand and sit at the appropriate times and sometimes sing along with the hymns, they remind me of my youth. I don't participate in communion or participate in call and response or confirmations of faith.
When I do go its always with my family so this Easter I spent a lot of the time searching for items with my nephew in a book.
Or you could try this
wow what a lot of responses.
first of @federica thank you for that wonderful comment. I do share in christmas and easter traditions. I have no problem with respecting anyone's beliefs, i just find myself overthinking things sometimes because i don't want to show disrespect and i just wondered if there was a special buddhist way ^^
and @vinlyn, that is exactly what i was referring to. In doing the cross i feel like lying or disrespecting those close to me because i don't believe anymore. Thus i wondered if there was something else i could do. I'll just stick to bowing when they do the cross, say nothing when they say amen and just stand silently (or sit) as they sing (i don't know the songs anyway).
Seems like the way i behaved was the right way to behave. But very glad to have that cleared up.
I mostly do what @person does. I stand and sit (but I cannot kneel due to my knee, so I just sit and feel awkward, lol) and sometimes I sing, but I do not say the creed or the Lord's prayer and so on. It feels wrong for me to participate to that level in actually repeating and saying things I don't believe in, it feels disrespectful to the people I am with, so I don't do it. It is not as apparent on normal church Mass, but at weddings and funerals, there are often quite a lot of people who are not participating in some level because of their differing beliefs. It is, I think, more about your attitude than anything. If you participate while feeling awkward about, that'll be more obvious than if you simply stand quietly.
I over think things much the same. When I hurt my knee, I could not sit with it bent for long periods, so while at retreats, I'd have to straighten my leg out in front of me, and the only way to do that with the setup meant aiming my foot right at my teacher. I was worried and I mentioned it to him, he laughed at me
Don't go to a church if you can't act in the way you you are expected to. I HAVE ENDURED SCOTTISH PRESBYTERIANS HARSHEST WOODEN BENCHES AND TOLD I'M GOING TO HELL. But I love my wife and her heritage; it's worth it...!
I would be most upset if I was silently sitting in a buddhist shrine room however, and someone came up to me and told me to repent my sins and say 10 haill mary's or whatever...
agree for awesome scottish heritage ^^ absolutely adoore Scotland
and i see what you mean, i think i have figured out the best way to behave during church (be it mass, funeral or wedding)
My group of girlfriend's...(one is a pastor's wife)...would tell me in a minute that they would be much more offended if I came and acted like I couldn't participate for their sake. " Girl, you could have just stayed your butt at home if you didn't want to do what we were doing"...hahaha. I agree. I still think it's a act of support and flexibility for other people in the group you associate with. I would be pretty mad, if they took my invite to the Temple and just stood there and 'pretended' like they were into what was supposed to be happening for me. I think it all boils down to the crowd and how much you feel the need to give of yourself. Without giving OVER yourself. Just my 4 cents..
..
Half-ass is still faking the funk....don't be fooled.
SO the answer is to act according to what the conditions impose, unless you want to appear out of place
I would have different expectations if I, say, invited a friend to a temple with me, and if I invited them to my Buddhist wedding. There are quite different situations, and while many of us might decline going to church on a regular day, we aren't nearly as likely to decline a wedding or funeral, which while they often include mass, aren't really the same. There are a couple of curious folk who come to our sangha meetings sometimes, and they do not say our beginning or ending prayers and they don't meditate, either. It doesn't really offend anyone. It's just kind of a "Whatever floats your boat" kind of a thing. Even some of the more regular attenders are uncomfortable chanting at retreats, so they don't. No skin off my hide. Why should I take offense if they are doing what works for them? If I were to invite a clueless friend, I would explain briefly what happens and then tell them to do what is comfortable for them. I am absolutely uncomfortable with a lot of the ritual in Catholic church, so I don't go unless it's a wedding or a funeral and thankfully no one ever asks me to go. My husband's family is Catholic and they never have a problem with me simply remaining quiet rather than repeating things they know I don't believe in (when there are funerals and such to go to within the family,I mean) It just depends on the people involved and so on. I'd rather have people willing to go on their own terms, than not go out of fear of having to do things they are uncomfortable with. The chanting thing is one of the most fearful things I hear people bring up. "I don't have to chant, do I?" Well, no, you don't, and no one will care if you don't, but we might chant. No big deal, either way. Their lack of interest or discomfort in chanting has nothing to do with me.
That kind of wraps up everything said here indeed
love the input from all of you 
You can pray with them, why not? It won't make you any less a Buddhist when you have good thoughts and respect for others.
I'd say just act in a respectful manner. Don't do anything to draw attention to yourself. You are their guest. Don't be rude. You don't have to pray or sing hymns, or anything else. Neither should you mke any sort of deal about being a Buddhist (they probably couldn't care less. Sit quietly and respectfully.
When I visit my family in Minnesota, I accompany my mother to church on Sundays. I rather enjoy it. It's the church they raised me in and there are always people I know and perhaps haven't seen in many years. The fact that I'm a Buddhist never comes up. It's not important.
Have to disagree. I think @Chaz has hit the nail on the head
After all, it's not about you. It's your gf's brother's day. And it's a wedding, no one will take notice of you to be honest
I like to write buddhist quotes in their prayer books just to confuse them.....
"Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma Sambuddhassa"
;-)
Just act like a tree.
You don't have to do or not do anything in particular.
Nice picture to stress you're point ^^
I agree, it's the conclusion i come thanks to all of you ^^ blend in, that's the key
and
Sorry if I am misreading both of those posts, but they seem to be bordering on disrespecting another religion.
Maybe I'm being a bit touchy ... probably ...
but one of the things I LOVE about the Dalai Lama (for example), is the unwavering respect for ALL religions of the world and for people such as Jesus (that would be the guy you are referring to who gives you the creeps), Abraham, Moses and Mohammed.
HHDL also said we take small things much too seriously and get offended by minor things when we should not.
A perfect response. You are absolutely right!
Well, in any case, I apologise if I caused you offense, @Yorkshireman.... it was said as a point of humour... and I WAS a practising R. Catholic for many years before..'switching paths'.... if that is of any relevance or help, that is....
No apology needed. Karasti was absolutely right. It was totally me being touchy when there was nothing to be touchy over. A good lesson learned for me :-)
I'm basically with @karasti on this one. As a Buddhist who still attends church a few times a year with my mother, I do not feel any need to go through any of the motions, say any prayers, or receive communion. My mother is just happy that I am in the church with her period. Being there for your family is more then enough and I don't feel you are being disrespectful by not reciting everything and joining in.
I am pretty strict when it comes to belief and faith.. if you fully believe in something you go for it, say all the rites, do all the rituals, if not, then don't, you can be respectful and be yourself at the same time.
also @cobaltsword , love the Assassin's Creed Avatar. The name isn't from Final Fantasy is it?
Assassin's Creed, ah yes isn't that like the Nicene Creed, which you probably won't want or have to recite . . . just in case, I provide an alternative game plan
Nicene Creed
_I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
_
Dharma Creed
_I believe in the Buddha, the Father of the Sangha, Maker of Dharma that ends suffering.
And in the Eight fold Path, created to end Dukkha, created for the welfare of all sentient beings; Path of Refuge, Light of Light. Very good in the beginning, in the middle and in the end.
Buddha for our welfare, came down from Nirvana, and taught skillful means for all Beings and died as do all arisings. The Buddha suffered and practiced under the Bo Tree. On the third day The Buddha sat again, according to the Sutras and entered enlightenment and sits eternally in the Purelands. The Buddha shall come again as the Metta Ray, with understanding and wisdom, to offer teachings
And I believe in the Enlightenment, the Giver of Dharma Wisdom which proceeds from the Practice and the Application. With the Bodhisattvas, dharma is called on for inspiration.
And I believe in nothing holy or profane as separate. I acknowledge my flaws and I look for the arising of virtue, and the moment of awakening.
_
See? That's what I'm talking about......
I can read the nicene creed a hundred times, Lord's prayer, Mass stuff, etc......I don't feel like a liar and I don't feel like it rings true. No aversion either. I'm not uncomfortable..... Just bland words.... for me, it's like reading the phone book.....I could do that a million more times if I knew/felt like it would be beneficial/help/comfort someone else.
On my Nana's death bed, with her rosary....she was unable to pray....and I did it for her...so she could hear. I did it for days......
Things at the Temple make my ears perk up like a dog, make my heart and head say "that's right"....and the monastery can make me cry and laugh and feel at peace....and yes..at times I feel uncomfortable with the things I need to face there.
That's where the 'words' cross over for me. ..
..
I concur, if you believe you go full out. that's why i sometimes felt ill at place in churches because i wasn't sure on how to behave. Visitors in a buddhist temple have guidelines, now i know the (fairly simple and obvious) guidelines for a buddhist within a church.
Yes Assassin's Creed ^^ Ezio Auditore Da Firenze. I found that the creed from this game is actually deeper than first percieved and applicable to real life. And it is thus one of the creeds i follow (minus the murdering of course because that goes against buddhism). No Cobaltsword is just my nerd side with cobalt being a sturdy bleu colored (favourite color) metal.
Thanks for the Dharma Creed now i can imprint it in my mind ^^ next to my Assassin's Creed that i follow
I suppose we sometimes lap-over philosophies. At the basis all of them are the same and want the same: peace and happiness. what you said about your nana, touched my heart. Made me rethink some things...
@Cobaltsword
when they ask to perform the cross
Asking a Buddhist guest to make the sign of a cross in a Church is like asking a Christian to bow at a Buddhist altar. If either chooses to do so then ..great...but asking them to do so is rude.
Your Gassho seems like a respectful alternative just as a Christian's hands in prayer would be seen as respectful in a Buddhist temple..
I agree ^^ just a question, what's a Gassho? A hand gesture?
Earlier someone mentioned how a couple getting married would feel if you, a Buddhist, were there not fully participating in the religious ceremony.
First, I don't think the couple getting married would be watching you; they'd be busy.
Second, if they're good enough friends to invite you to their wedding, they're good enough friends to understand you have different beliefs.
I attend a twelve step program that closes each meeting with the Lord's Prayer. While one's spiritual beliefs are personal and each member of this twelve step program can choose a 'Higher Power' of their own choosing, the overwhelming Christian membership has settled on the Lord's Prayer. For years, I joined hands and stood silently while others prayed aloud in deference to the wishes of the group. Lately, perhaps the last two years or so, I have sat out.
While I don't wish to offend anyone, our literature states that the most important person in the room is the newcomer. Over the years I have found that many who join this twelve step program have entered with some mighty big resentments against the Church. My sitting out and refraining from joining the prayer circle is for their benefit. If they come in on their first day, are uncomfortable with the Lord's Prayer specifically or anything religious in general, they can see someone with a few decades of recovery sitting out and it drives (I hope) the point home that "a Higher Power of your understanding" is not a euphemism for an old white guy with a beard sitting in the sky with his son.
Anyway, I am content with how I have handled this in both cases. Neither actions have been to serve myself - what could go wrong with that?
Whilst I agree that asking people to conform in their home turf can be construed as rude . . .
Silently one can say (if I remember my Yinyana heresy properly):
In the Name of the Buddha and the Dharma and the Sangha, OM
Yeah Buddhist 'Rude Dharma' Genuflection . . . now available . . .
^^^ lolololol I admit to doing that to the gospel songs!
Once the choir gets going , and the group is dancing and you are singing about peace and love and feeling grateful, ...etc.......I can easily fill 'buddhist' words in...hahaha...I'm in the moment, .....my training for practice can easily fill in/stand on it's own.
You are not lyin' there! ......
Off topic...@how is back! I see you! ..... ..
..
For me, the words of the Lord's Prayer, the Nicene Creed and so on are so important and so...foundational to their beliefs that I feel badly saying them simply as meaningless words. If they are meaningless to me, but very meaningful to them, I feel like a fraud in saying them. Not saying everyone else should feel that way, just my own hangup.
The favorite prayer of mine that we do with our sangha is titled the Buddha's Last Prayer:
May every breath I breathe,
help relieve the suffering of the many.
May every step I take,
be on the path of truth.
May my eyes see myself
in all living beings.
May my heart do the work
that compassion demands.
May I feel every tear,
every hurt, every need
May I touch with sacred hands.
May my body be a bridge,
and my spirit healing ointment.
May my words fall like rain
of the desert of need.
May I give without hesitation
and without expectation.
May I grasp the hand that needs help
and let go of all else.
May my life be both prayer
and the much needed answer.
May my identity be both lost
and found in all living beings.