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How do I become "re-enchanted" by Buddhism?

When I first started with Buddhism, I was obsessed. I made a Buddha shrine right away and told my monk I was interested in being a monk. I immediately jumped to eating only once a day and meditating an hour a day. I also was extremely compassionate, volunteering at a soup kitchen once a week and doing my job motivated by compassion. I kept the five precepts, trying not to take what wasn't given to me and not telling the slightest lie. My meditations were strong then and I felt like I could love almost anybody. I was happy.

Now, I have a meditation room where I try to meditate for only 30 minutes a day but I fail to make it a daily practice out of apathy and disinterest. I'll have days where I'm obsessed and I mold my life around the dhamma and am at much peace. But those are only on days where my mind is numb to the idea of how I view Buddhism most of the time, as a cult that believes that you either burn for eons or deprive yourself of a human life so you can fade into nothingness. On the days that my mind forgets about it, I am happy and peaceful, but most of the time, I think about how scary the whole concept is and get disenchanted by meditation and cut off my daily practice. It's a constant fluctuation between 'love and peace' and uncontrollable fear and wishful doubt. That's what happens when my mind starts running on Buddhism intellectually is it looks for any excuse to not believe in Buddhism so I can live my apathetic, pointless life without burden by strict morals and fear of existence. I've spent countless hours with my phone in my face trying to convince myself that Buddhism is not real and I can peacefully float on a pointless adventure.

I really don't know which one I prefer but I know I want clarity, commitment, and acceptance. If I choose to meditate, I want to be motivated to meditate every day through a lack of doubt. If I choose to live pointlessly, I'll probably pick up drinking and find ways to maintain an adrenaline-junky lifestyle. Either option I'm okay with, I just want my experience with it to be doubtless.

I've been practice for almost three years and I am of the Theravadin tradition and my teacher is Sri Lankan.

Thank you for the help, guys.

silverInvincible_summerLinc
«1

Comments

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Hi @dooksta123 - may I ask how old you are?

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    I tried out Zen and Theravadan Buddhism but found them too dry.

    Maybe you should give the Tibetan tradition a try?

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @dooksta123 said, "I really don't know which one I prefer but I know I want clarity, commitment, and acceptance. If I choose to meditate, I want to be motivated to meditate every day through a lack of doubt. If I choose to live pointlessly, I'll probably pick up drinking and find ways to maintain an adrenaline-junky lifestyle. Either option I'm okay with, I just want my experience with it to be doubtless.

    I've been practice for almost three years and I am of the Theravadin tradition and my teacher is Sri Lankan.

    Thank you for the help, guys."

    Do you know how beautiful that highlighted bit is? It struck me right away as sheer awesomeness - primarily because Buddha doesn't require ANYTHING from his followers. He wants us to be and remain as mindful as possible but he never demands that we be perfect or something. Everything we do, we do to the best of our own personal limits - we don't go to Hell or anything of that nature. If I'm going to follow something - of all the religions I've ever heard about, it's this one.

    Kale4Dayz
  • What if doubt were actually the right path? What if questioning, exploring, probing were the right things to do? What if mindless unthinking devotion to habits constituted closed mindedness?

    lobsterkarasti
  • nakazcidnakazcid Somewhere in Dixie, y'all Veteran

    In times of doubt, I ask myself this: Has Buddhism made my life better? The answer is always a resounding yes, and that helps, though it doesn't always dispel all doubt. Take a look at the benefits of your practice. If there aren't any, then perhaps you need to try a different path.

    That seems all nice and logical, but something still wasn't right. I went through a period where I had the hardest time getting myself to meditate consistently. I then tried a few different practices until I found one that seemed to fit me well. Other practices, like counting the breath, were too rigid and goal-oriented for me, so I settled on a style that's less formal. It's been much easier to meditate in that manner, even though I still miss a day now and then.

    Have you talked to your teacher about this? He might have some insight or advice that will help you out. I would also see if he can suggest other practices, or perhaps, as Bunks suggests, you may need to look at other traditions.

    dantepw
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @dooksta123

    Meditation is not about having control over one's feelings.
    It is about allowing them to freely arise, live and pass on without trying to organize their journeys.
    It is the same for what you see or hear or smell or taste or think.

    Doubt, certainty, apathy, energy, interest or disinterest,
    can not be grasped after, pushed away or ignored
    without suffering being the result.

    EarthninjanakazcidInvincible_summer
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @Steve_B said:
    What if doubt were actually the right path? What if questioning, exploring, probing were the right things to do? What if mindless unthinking devotion to habits constituted closed mindedness?

    Can it be true? :o

    For doubt free re-enchantment you require a Hinayana Magician. Might not be available. About your monk ... any others available? I would upgrade.

    Here is a really exciting one who won't stay in his cupboard ... (I keep all my favourite monks and Buddhas in a magic/imaginary cupboard)

    http://www.hulanshaolin.org/page2/page2.html

  • @Bunks said:
    Hi dooksta123 - may I ask how old you are?

    Young. Early 20's.

  • @Bunks said:
    I tried out Zen and Theravadan Buddhism but found them too dry.

    Maybe you should give the Tibetan tradition a try?

    As fun as that would be, supernatural in general tends to turn me off.

    Bunks
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @dooksta123 said: Young. Early 20's.

    You've got time to experiment then. Try something else. Live dangerously for a while if that pleases you. Sometimes we just need to get stuff out of our system.

  • @silver said:
    dooksta123 said, "I really don't know which one I prefer but I know I want clarity, commitment, and acceptance. If I choose to meditate, I want to be motivated to meditate every day through a lack of doubt. If I choose to live pointlessly, I'll probably pick up drinking and find ways to maintain an adrenaline-junky lifestyle. Either option I'm okay with, I just want my experience with it to be doubtless.

    I've been practice for almost three years and I am of the Theravadin tradition and my teacher is Sri Lankan.

    Thank you for the help, guys."

    Do you know how beautiful that highlighted bit is? It struck me right away as sheer awesomeness - primarily because Buddha doesn't require ANYTHING from his followers. He wants us to be and remain as mindful as possible but he never demands that we be perfect or something. Everything we do, we do to the best of our own personal limits - we don't go to Hell or anything of that nature. If I'm going to follow something - of all the religions I've ever heard about, it's this one.

    Well stated, Silver. It's just hard to not be black and white about it when first, if the Buddha was perfect, his word is perfect. And so many people claim to have experienced insight, so it's hard to argue with since it's about faith only initially.

  • @Steve_B said:
    What if doubt were actually the right path? What if questioning, exploring, probing were the right things to do? What if mindless unthinking devotion to habits constituted closed mindedness?

    Well put. I'd agree with you and sometimes claim to feel that way but we shouldn't doubt how good it feels to be at home with an understanding and finding something to keep you at ease with that understanding.

  • tibellustibellus Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @dooksta123 said:
    When I first started with Buddhism, I was obsessed. I made a Buddha shrine right away and told my monk I was interested in being a monk. I immediately jumped to eating only once a day and meditating an hour a day. I also was extremely compassionate, volunteering at a soup kitchen once a week and doing my job motivated by compassion. I kept the five precepts, trying not to take what wasn't given to me and not telling the slightest lie. My meditations were strong then and I felt like I could love almost anybody. I was happy.

    I think this was the "honeymoon phase". I went through that initial excitement and enthusiasm too and it can be applied to anything we start learning. Learning and practicing something will have a lot of ups and downs, and when we hit that dip where we feel confused or just plain bored is actually the hardest part. This is the point that decides if we will continue with this or switch to something else, enter a new honeymoon phase, then a dip, then we quit and repeat the process again.

    Now, I have a meditation room where I try to meditate for only 30 minutes a day but I fail to make it a daily practice out of apathy and disinterest. I'll have days where I'm obsessed and I mold my life around the dhamma and am at much peace. But those are only on days where my mind is numb to the idea of how I view Buddhism most of the time, as a cult that believes that you either burn for eons or deprive yourself of a human life so you can fade into nothingness. On the days that my mind forgets about it, I am happy and peaceful, but most of the time, I think about how scary the whole concept is and get disenchanted by meditation and cut off my daily practice. It's a constant fluctuation between 'love and peace' and uncontrollable fear and wishful doubt. That's what happens when my mind starts running on Buddhism intellectually is it looks for any excuse to not believe in Buddhism so I can live my apathetic, pointless life without burden by strict morals and fear of existence. I've spent countless hours with my phone in my face trying to convince myself that Buddhism is not real and I can peacefully float on a pointless adventure.

    Have you thought that maybe you are turning meditation into something too formal or too religious? I haven't encountered any strict morals in Buddhism, only guidelines. I bolded something in the above quote, I think that everyone - even monks & nuns, holy people, boddhisattvas, gods, whatever - experience that fluctuation you're talking about. From my point of view, that's the whole thing of the practice: to observe how everything is constantly changing, even our thoughts and emotions, and accept that.

    lobsterVastmindKundo
  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @dooksta123 said:
    Well stated, Silver. It's just hard to not be black and white about it when first, if the Buddha was perfect, his word is perfect. And so many people claim to have experienced insight, so it's hard to argue with since it's about faith only initially.

    I'm not quite getting what you're saying. Are you saying your understanding is that he was perfect? I'm thinking from what I've studied and read, sure there's insight but I'm not sure how faith plays into the beginning of Buddhism.

    Steve_B
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @dooksta123 said:
    As fun as that would be, supernatural in general tends to turn me off.

    :3
    Fair enough.

    In which case @federica made an excellent practice suggestion ...

    @dooksta123 said:
    I also was extremely compassionate, volunteering at a soup kitchen once a week and doing my job motivated by compassion. I kept the five precepts, trying not to take what wasn't given to me and not telling the slightest lie. My meditations were strong then and I felt like I could love almost anybody. I was happy.

    Being 'extremely compassionate' [one of my hangups] does not always extend to ourselves in the austerity of the Theravadin tradition. Same with love. Can you love the less commited practitioner you now are?

    Do you feel metta bhavana practice would be helpful? :)

  • I you don't want to meditate: do it anyway.

    Repeat this often enough; it'll become easy

    Invincible_summerlobster
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited October 2015

    I want to be motivated to meditate every day through a lack of doubt.

    Do you see the problem you are setting yourself up for here? According to the Theravada tradition, only a stream enterer has abandoned doubting or vicikicchā. If you are going to wait until you have lack of doubt, you have to wait until you "enter the stream". However, in order to "enter the stream" you have to do the practices that lead to that! Therefore, it's not appropriate to wait until you have lack of doubt in order to do the practices. The practices themselves are what lead to a lack of doubt to begin with!

    Lack of doubt doesn't just happen all by itself. Your above statement is essentially a catch 22. If you need to wait for lack of doubt to do the practices, you'll be waiting forever.

    If I choose to meditate, I want to be motivated to meditate every day through a lack of doubt.

    This is accomplished by doing the meditation practices and gaining the insight that comes from them.

    Your statement is almost like saying "My car ran out of gas, but I want to wait until I can drive to the gas station in order to get more gas"

    That doesn't make any sense! :)

    If you want to progress, you need to exert "right effort" like the Buddha taught. :)

    lobsterdooksta123
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @iamthezenmaster said: I you don't want to meditate: do it anyway.

    Or have a complete break and do some hang-gliding. ;)

    PS Hang-gliding is also a useful way to find out what mindfulness is really about.

    Kundodooksta123seeker242
  • MetaphasicMetaphasic NC, USA Explorer

    @dooksta123

    When I first started with Buddhism, I was obsessed.

    Your opening line seems to indicate a strong desire to obtain. I am not sure that this is right thinking. As noted by others, it may have just been a honeymoon phase, but if some element of this desire still remains, it could explain your state. If what you expected isn't coming fast enough, it could lead to stress.

    My advice, like others, is to just relax, free yourself from expectations, and do not get bogged down in the details. I also think you are restricting yourself too much in regards to meditation and tradition. For example, I do not have a cushion, a special room, and any of the "traditional" implements for meditation. You know where I do it most often? In the shower, after I've rinsed. I close my eyes, lean against the wall, and let the warm water cascade over me.

    Just remember, practicing Buddhism is more about seeking than obtaining.

    njohnson12Kundo
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @dooksta123 said:
    When I first started with Buddhism, I was obsessed. I made a Buddha shrine right away and told my monk I was interested in being a monk. I immediately jumped to eating only once a day and meditating an hour a day. I also was extremely compassionate, volunteering at a soup kitchen once a week and doing my job motivated by compassion. I kept the five precepts, trying not to take what wasn't given to me and not telling the slightest lie. My meditations were strong then and I felt like I could love almost anybody. I was happy.

    Yes.I absolutely can equate. This is often known as 'the Honeymoon period'. A lot of people go through this kind of head-over-heels, tumultuous beginning...

    Now, I have a meditation room where I try to meditate for only 30 minutes a day but I fail to make it a daily practice out of apathy and disinterest.

    I'm being absolutely sincerely serious, when I suggest you re-decorate, and re-model this room...

    ....But those are only on days where my mind is numb to the idea of how I view Buddhism most of the time, as a cult that believes that you either burn for eons or deprive yourself of a human life so you can fade into nothingness.

    I have absolutely no idea what the heck you're talking about. Where precisely did you glean these notions from? What's your source? Could you give some kind of link or reference, because honestly? It sounds more Christian than Fundie Christians do....

    On the days that my mind forgets about it, I am happy and peaceful, but most of the time, I think about how scary the whole concept is and get disenchanted by meditation and cut off my daily practice. It's a constant fluctuation between 'love and peace' and uncontrollable fear and wishful doubt.

    Again, I have no idea whence this 'doubt' comes, given that pretty much most of what the Buddha taught is verifiable through trying it for yourself; experience.
    Leave aside factors like re-birth for a moment. Nobody's standing there with a gun to your head stating unequivocally that you MUST believe it or not. Why exactly re you unnecessarily beating yourself up with mistaken notions?

    That's what happens when my mind starts running on Buddhism intellectually is it looks for any excuse to not believe in Buddhism so I can live my apathetic, pointless life without burden by strict morals and fear of existence.

    What 'belief'...? What strict morals are you being fettered by?
    Why do you fear existence, when in fact, you should be embracing it?

    And what 'intellectual' thoughts do you have, running on Buddhism, that bring you to these mistaken, and dare I say it, bullshit conclusions? (Yes, I dare.)

    I've spent countless hours with my phone in my face trying to convince myself that Buddhism is not real and I can peacefully float on a pointless adventure.

    Forgive the question - sincerely - do you take drugs? I mean, what can be more real, than 'rubber-hits-the-road Buddhism?

    I really don't know which one I prefer but I know I want clarity, commitment, and acceptance.

    Then quit trying so hard. Ease up, relax and quit thinking it's just you and no-one else....

    If I choose to meditate, I want to be motivated to meditate every day through a lack of doubt.

    I still don't understand this 'doubt' crap. I mean, be specific. What is it precisely, you doubt?

    If I choose to live pointlessly, I'll probably pick up drinking and find ways to maintain an adrenaline-junky lifestyle.

    Seems to me you're wavering towards that extreme already. Buddhism can't do it for you.
    You have to do it.

    Buddhism doesn't offer you answers and results. YOU do that.

    Either option I'm okay with, I just want my experience with it to be doubtless.

    Yes, well, once we know what your doubts exactly are, maybe we can help you deal with them. Until then, you're just tying yourself up with needless riddles....

    I've been practice for almost three years and I am of the Theravadin tradition and my teacher is Sri Lankan.

    Connect less with your teacher, and engage your own brain for a while.

    Thank you for the help, guys.

    You're welcome.

    KundoBuddhadragondooksta123
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    edited October 2015

    ^^^ good advice from someones mother ...

    Ice Cream Dharma:
    NT1 existence without ice cream is dukkha

    Relax but don't slack.

    I used to know somone who was enlightened. He lived a life of hedonistic drug taking interceded with monastic retreats. I shouldn't tell the drugees such things o:)

    Apart from the drug taking and having to hang out with monks he was on the far shore ... but then there is no apart ... He was quite extreme in his monastic practices too. One of the monks lost his temper with this guy, as despite being as thin as a rake, he would pile his plate with at least three times as much as anyone else ... The monk who was more restrained in his diet was a little rotund ...

    Tee Hee ... Ice Cream Nirvana here we come ...

    dooksta123
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran

    Practice is spurred by motivation, the reason why your practice has waivered is because your previous motivation was one of self interest and samsaric...if you want strong and stable practice you should make it motivated by renunication.

    silverhowBunksKundo
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    if you want strong and stable practice you should make it motivated by renunication.

    Pay attention, @dooksta123 ... there's the old "should" word again, hovering in the post above.

    Invincible_summer
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @dooksta123 said:
    When I first started with Buddhism, I was obsessed. I made a Buddha shrine right away and told my monk I was interested in being a monk. I immediately jumped to eating only once a day and meditating an hour a day. I also was extremely compassionate, volunteering at a soup kitchen once a week and doing my job motivated by compassion. I kept the five precepts, trying not to take what wasn't given to me and not telling the slightest lie. My meditations were strong then and I felt like I could love almost anybody. I was happy.

    This might sound dumb but with all those distractions, how could you have time to be happy?

    Almost sounds like a runners high or something.

    Now, I have a meditation room where I try to meditate for only 30 minutes a day but I fail to make it a daily practice out of apathy and disinterest. I'll have days where I'm obsessed and I mold my life around the dhamma and am at much peace. But those are only on days where my mind is numb to the idea of how I view Buddhism most of the time, as a cult that believes that you either burn for eons or deprive yourself of a human life so you can fade into nothingness

    Burn for eons or fade into nothingness (whatever that actually means)... ?

    I'm a little stumped there as I've always viewed Buddhism as a process of waking up to the reality of non-separation where compassion is logical, not idealism and living in accordance with that truth.

    On the days that my mind forgets about it, I am happy and peaceful, but most of the time, I think about how scary the whole concept is and get disenchanted by meditation and cut off my daily practice. It's a constant fluctuation between 'love and peace' and uncontrollable fear and wishful doubt. That's what happens when my mind starts running on Buddhism intellectually is it looks for any excuse to not believe in Buddhism so I can live my apathetic, pointless life without burden by strict morals and fear of existence. I've spent countless hours with my phone in my face trying to convince myself that Buddhism is not real and I can peacefully float on a pointless adventure.

    The doubt I understand but the fear I don't really. It seems illogical to me to be afraid of non-existence to the point of wasting the only existence we know of.

    Let me ask you... Do you think this "nothingness" you speak of mean the same thing as "emptiness"?

    I ask because if the answer is yes, I think I see the main problem.

    Seeing the self as not-a-thing seems different than seeing it as nothing or non-existent to me but some will say otherwise.

    What we are is in a constant state of change and always has been so there can be no original or abiding self but to say there is no self at all is an extreme that Buddha would have you avoid.

    If not, why get up from his tree instead of rotting?

    I am not a human being but I am being human at the moment. If I were truly a human being I would have always been and would always be a human being.

    What is your original face? Any label implies abiding.

    I really don't know which one I prefer but I know I want clarity, commitment, and acceptance. If I choose to meditate, I want to be motivated to meditate every day through a lack of doubt.

    Don't fret too much about the doubt, it's healthy. Once you think you have it all down is when you should be worried, I think.

    If you have too much faith in ideas (yours or anothers) you could close your mind to new information.

    I don't think the truth has to be complicated or all inclusive because the only constant is change.

    That post was way longer than I wanted it to be.

    The original draft was:

    "I drop a brick on my foot"

    Invincible_summerlobsterCinorjer
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @dooksta123 said:
    Young. Early 20's.

    I thought so.

    I am impressed that you'd even contemplate Buddhism at that age. I wouldn't have put down my beer or bong to give it a second thought!!

    Invincible_summerlobsterKundo
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran

    @dooksta123 said:

    I've been practice for almost three years and I am of the Theravadin tradition and my teacher is Sri Lankan.

    Have you talked to your teacher about your spiritual doubt? What does (I assume) he say?

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    @ourself said:
    I don't think the truth has to be complicated or all inclusive because the only constant is change.

    Ay curumba [lobster feints - for a change]
    Change is a constant? Dear Lord Buddha in Heaven! What is a gal to do?

  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @dooksta123 If you're still reading, you packed a lot into your post. First, I want to commend you and congratulate you on the enthusiasm and dedication you've shown so far. Of everything you've told us, that is the most remarkable thing I found in this young man who is looking to recapture the initial rush of enthusiasm.

    Now for the bad news. You can find motivation in your practice, but you can never recapture the feeling of starting off on a new adventure. We start off meditating because it's something new and different. We're excited about the messages we're listening to, a breath of fresh air in a world polluted with hatred and confusion. We see the monks and read about the Masters, and find role models we can look up to and want to emulate.

    Then the newness wears off. We discover there is no magical path to wisdom and peace. The monks turn out to be regular people who put their robes on one sleeve at a time and even display a few faults. Even the message seems simplistic now.

    So do you turn your meditation room into a video game room and practice your thumb technique instead of your breathing techniques? Maybe. Give yourself permission to do what seems right for you. Do not - DO NOT turn the Buddha's path to freedom from suffering into just another source of suffering in your life. You're fooling yourself if you think that's being a Buddhist or helping you in any way.

    You're confusing ritual with practice. We love rituals because it gives us something to focus on. We love labels because it gives us something to call ourselves. You're a good person, and you've learned a lot from what you've already done. You won't forget how to meditate or lose the ability to be mindful if you don't do the rituals. And in a few years, you'll be amazed how different it feels when you get the sudden urge to do a bit of meditation again. You will have a new motivation and new goals and a bit more experience to bring to the cushion.

    Whatever you do, just do it and stop feeling guilty and beating yourself up about it. That's not what Buddha tells you is the proper way.

    lobsterKundoDavidLinc
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    ^^^ Outstanding <3

    One day you might give me or somone in karmic need similar inspiration to @Cinorjer ...

    Cinorjerdooksta123
  • Every day I rise, I sit down and I become re-enchanted.
    Every night, I sit down and become re-enchanted.
    True, some days are more 'enchanting' than others.
    And some evenings are difficult.
    None-the-less, every day is a new adventure, a new beginning.
    Every evening is the opportunity to shunt the old and prepare for the new.
    Or polish the old that it may again be new.
    Easy? Perhaps not. But rewarding? Absolutely.

    Peace to all

    lobstermmodooksta123
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    @genkaku said:
    dooksta123--
    My mother once said, "Don't get too holy by next Thursday."

    Someone else (forget who) observed, "The hard stuff is easy. It's the easy stuff that's hard."

    Exactly so.
    Being Holy, Buddhist, Mahayanic, messianic or clinging to Thorsday [sic] is all forgettable ...

    I agree with those who suggest you ease up ... go out and sin some more. Stop imagining that doubt is not your very good companion along the way. Stop imagining that "should" is a useful word. Stop imagining that Buddhism is something imaginary.

    Good advice.
    You are right I should stop using should. However used or implied can be useful/skilful or should be ... B)

    In the deviant dervish path we remember that life itself has lessons. We learn despite our movement in and out of concentrated practice.

    @Lionduck said:
    Every day I rise, I sit down and I become re-enchanted.

    I likes simple planz!

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @dooksta123 said:
    As fun as that would be, supernatural in general tends to turn me off.

    OK stop right there. Tongue in cheek that may be, it's also extremely arrogant and narrow minded. By you're own admission you're "young. Early 20's" and I remember how I was at that age so I'll give your atttitude to "supernatural in general" the benefit of the doubt.

    Before dismissing out of hand a whole tradition due to what you perceive to be laughable, suspend your disbelief and ridicule and perhaps read about the tradition first. Tibetan Buddhism, along with most paths of Buddhism and Eastern paths cannot be viewed accurately through Western eyes without trying to understand it. What we in the West have been taught in regards to "the supenatural" - usually from a Judeo-Christian perspective, is different to Eastern paths' teachings I've found.

    It may or may not be for you, but given you are in a position of dissatisfaction on your current path, what have you got to lose?

    _ /\ _

  • LionduckLionduck Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @dooksta123, I think you already are aware if this, but:

    There is no 'magic', no supernatural in Buddhism, Without going into details, while the Tantric tradition appears to entail a level of mysticism, it is certainly not 'magic'. Zen and other meditative practices are not 'magic'. The Nam-myoho-renge-kyo of Nichiren Buddhism is most definitely not 'magic'.

    I have not come in contact with Buddhist demons, devils, or gods. I have, however, had countless encounters with what they represent functionally.

    Agree or disagree, every tradition has it's source, it's base. Every tradition has it's rational.

    @dhammachick was correct in scolding you. She make an excellent point. Listen to your elders, they sometimes really do know something you might not. o:)

    Peace to all

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    @Lionduck said:
    Listen to your elders, they sometimes really do know something you might not. o:)

    Long live the Hinayana/Therevada/Senior Sangha/Elders :3

    Enchantment with Dharma entails inspiration from the three jewels. Magick dharma is initially mostly symbolic. Spooky stuff arises quite naturally to practitioners whatever the path. It is quite natural, some of it is not always initially comprehensible and really of no importance and usually in dharma, shed before it attracts the superficial in us ...

  • @Cinorjer said:
    @dooksta123 If you're still reading, you packed a lot into your post. First, I want to commend you and congratulate you on the enthusiasm and dedication you've shown so far. Of everything you've told us, that is the most remarkable thing I found in this young man who is looking to recapture the initial rush of enthusiasm.

    Now for the bad news. You can find motivation in your practice, but you can never recapture the feeling of starting off on a new adventure. We start off meditating because it's something new and different. We're excited about the messages we're listening to, a breath of fresh air in a world polluted with hatred and confusion. We see the monks and read about the Masters, and find role models we can look up to and want to emulate.

    Then the newness wears off. We discover there is no magical path to wisdom and peace. The monks turn out to be regular people who put their robes on one sleeve at a time and even display a few faults. Even the message seems simplistic now.

    So do you turn your meditation room into a video game room and practice your thumb technique instead of your breathing techniques? Maybe. Give yourself permission to do what seems right for you. Do not - DO NOT turn the Buddha's path to freedom from suffering into just another source of suffering in your life. You're fooling yourself if you think that's being a Buddhist or helping you in any way.

    You're confusing ritual with practice. We love rituals because it gives us something to focus on. We love labels because it gives us something to call ourselves. You're a good person, and you've learned a lot from what you've already done. You won't forget how to meditate or lose the ability to be mindful if you don't do the rituals. And in a few years, you'll be amazed how different it feels when you get the sudden urge to do a bit of meditation again. You will have a new motivation and new goals and a bit more experience to bring to the cushion.

    Whatever you do, just do it and stop feeling guilty and beating yourself up about it. That's not what Buddha tells you is the proper way.


    You are such a beautiful person! Thank you for such a compassionate response. I truly must prevent myself from falling into the trap of Buddhism being unhealthy. I feel that as I take small breaks from my meditation practice that it helps me understand the differences it makes and how it builds me up to return. I hope to be more enchanted soon. I just need to stop being terrified by something that removes terror.

    Cinorjersilver
  • @caz said:
    Practice is spurred by motivation, the reason why your practice has waivered is because your previous motivation was one of self interest and samsaric...if you want strong and stable practice you should make it motivated by renunication.

    And why exactly would I be motivated by renunciation if I don't know what's on the other side of the rainbow?

  • @ourself said:

    @dooksta123 said:
    When I first started with Buddhism, I was obsessed. I made a Buddha shrine right away and told my monk I was interested in being a monk. I immediately jumped to eating only once a day and meditating an hour a day. I also was extremely compassionate, volunteering at a soup kitchen once a week and doing my job motivated by compassion. I kept the five precepts, trying not to take what wasn't given to me and not telling the slightest lie. My meditations were strong then and I felt like I could love almost anybody. I was happy.

    This might sound dumb but with all those distractions, how could you have time to be happy?

    Almost sounds like a runners high or something.

    Now, I have a meditation room where I try to meditate for only 30 minutes a day but I fail to make it a daily practice out of apathy and disinterest. I'll have days where I'm obsessed and I mold my life around the dhamma and am at much peace. But those are only on days where my mind is numb to the idea of how I view Buddhism most of the time, as a cult that believes that you either burn for eons or deprive yourself of a human life so you can fade into nothingness

    Burn for eons or fade into nothingness (whatever that actually means)... ?

    I'm a little stumped there as I've always viewed Buddhism as a process of waking up to the reality of non-separation where compassion is logical, not idealism and living in accordance with that truth.

    On the days that my mind forgets about it, I am happy and peaceful, but most of the time, I think about how scary the whole concept is and get disenchanted by meditation and cut off my daily practice. It's a constant fluctuation between 'love and peace' and uncontrollable fear and wishful doubt. That's what happens when my mind starts running on Buddhism intellectually is it looks for any excuse to not believe in Buddhism so I can live my apathetic, pointless life without burden by strict morals and fear of existence. I've spent countless hours with my phone in my face trying to convince myself that Buddhism is not real and I can peacefully float on a pointless adventure.

    The doubt I understand but the fear I don't really. It seems illogical to me to be afraid of non-existence to the point of wasting the only existence we know of.

    Let me ask you... Do you think this "nothingness" you speak of mean the same thing as "emptiness"?

    I ask because if the answer is yes, I think I see the main problem.

    Seeing the self as not-a-thing seems different than seeing it as nothing or non-existent to me but some will say otherwise.

    What we are is in a constant state of change and always has been so there can be no original or abiding self but to say there is no self at all is an extreme that Buddha would have you avoid.

    If not, why get up from his tree instead of rotting?

    I am not a human being but I am being human at the moment. If I were truly a human being I would have always been and would always be a human being.

    What is your original face? Any label implies abiding.

    I really don't know which one I prefer but I know I want clarity, commitment, and acceptance. If I choose to meditate, I want to be motivated to meditate every day through a lack of doubt.

    Don't fret too much about the doubt, it's healthy. Once you think you have it all down is when you should be worried, I think.

    If you have too much faith in ideas (yours or anothers) you could close your mind to new information.

    I don't think the truth has to be complicated or all inclusive because the only constant is change.

    That post was way longer than I wanted it to be.

    The original draft was:

    "I drop a brick on my foot"

    So Buddhism is not about being enlightened so I can be shrouded in infinite darkness because the "I" has been extinguished? With the other alternative is burning in hellfire during an eventual rebirth?

    And do Buddhists hate life? My teacher can't explain it because he's not great at English but he told me I was very wrong. I just see it as despising life so I kill myself in a way that I never live again, otherwise punishment.

  • @Invincible_summer said:

    @dooksta123 said:

    I've been practice for almost three years and I am of the Theravadin tradition and my teacher is Sri Lankan.

    Have you talked to your teacher about your spiritual doubt? What does (I assume) he say?

    My teacher is useless to me. When I ask him a question, usually he'll just say, "you'll have to figure it out by yourself. I can't do it for you" and "you're in 'first grade' and aren't ready to ask those questions." More often then not, I get no real answer.

  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited November 2015

    @dooksta123
    And do Buddhists hate life? My teacher can't explain it because he's not great at English but he told me I was very wrong. I just see it as despising life so I kill myself in a way that I never live again, otherwise punishment.

    Heard the question many times before. No, Buddhists don't hate life. Neither do we embrace death. Sometimes this talk of "letting go" and "non-attachment" can be misunderstood.

    Our fault, I think. We've never completely got over our ascetic roots. Part of it is that sometimes even revered Masters can slide into rejecting life in the name of purity and start teaching that all emotions are defilements and must be eliminated. It's a short step from that to claiming we must eliminate the defilement of happiness by rejecting anything of value in life. The history of Buddhism has many instances of this that thankfully don't last long.

    Don't hate life, but don't cling to it. Live each moment and see it as the short journey from cradle to grave that it is. Nothing particularly subtle about that, but believe it or not, the Buddha's Dharma is not complicated. When people try to cram it into a box it wasn't designed for, then it gets messy.

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran
    edited November 2015

    @dooksta123 said:

    @Invincible_summer said:

    @dooksta123 said:

    I've been practice for almost three years and I am of the Theravadin tradition and my teacher is Sri Lankan.

    Have you talked to your teacher about your spiritual doubt? What does (I assume) he say?

    My teacher is useless to me. When I ask him a question, usually he'll just say, "you'll have to figure it out by yourself. I can't do it for you" and "you're in 'first grade' and aren't ready to ask those questions." More often then not, I get no real answer.

    It's partly not surprising that he responds like that to your queries; and even though you've gotten some deep, thoughtful responses here, even we NB members can't flesh out the answers to your questions, to be honest. I think you probably can understand that much. When I first joined a non-duality forum 3 years ago, I had real trouble accepting that much - that all they can do is 'point' - it can seem like some really weird stuff. Thank god for Buddhism and this forum! Saved my mind. :p

    Cinorjer
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2015

    @dooksta123 , I think you're trying too hard to give rhyme, reason, meaning and understanding to everything.
    I see from your replies that you don't appear to have addressed my last post to you...

    Some of the wisest words ever given, in response to personally-deep, "soul"-affecting questions, are - "I don't know".

    Your teacher was absolutely right to give you the responses he did. He was actually being more helpful to you than you realise, because he was quite right.
    You can't simply have a comprehensible answer, just because you've happened to ask a question.

    What you have done, is a bit like this:

    You've picked up a knitting pattern, and cast on the required number of stitches. And you have begun to knit.
    Suddenly, you've noticed the wool may be the wrong type, and you've just spotted Another knitting pattern, with an interesting design, so you've switched patterns - without undoing or stopping your previous work - adjusted the number of stitches, and changed what you were knitting to something more complicated.... but now, you realise you're not sure this is going right, so, instead of pausing, you've added another strand of wool, and begun on yet another pattern, changed needle size, and tried to knit something else....and it's come out something like this...

    Quit.
    shove all of it to the back of the cupboard, and stop.
    Breathe.
    Put it all down.
    Now, read this.
    This is where you need to re-begin.
    Best place ever.

    Christ, you are so damn wound up tight, I have no idea why.
    Just relax, and quit thinking you have to have it all worked out by 21.

    Some of us are beyond middle -age, and we haven't got a clue.
    You're no-one special, you know.
    You don't merit the privilege of knowing everything, having it all worked out and solving anything, any more than anyone else.

    Calm yourself, and just be human.
    We're all still working on that one, too....

    Jeesh, at your age, you shouldn't be experiencing such angst and fretfulness....
    You should be marvelling at the sheer joy, vitality, exuberance and wonder of even being able to breathe in, breathe out, and wow - breathe in again!

    Even the Buddha said himself, "There's so much I know I could teach, but it's all pointless, because rather than add, it detracts from the true purpose of my basic instructions: The origin of Stress, and its cessation."

    That's where returning to basics will help.

    Because ultimately, that's really all you need to focus on.

    namarupaInvincible_summer
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    @dooksta123 said:
    so I can be shrouded in infinite darkness because the "I" has been extinguished? With the other alternative is burning in hellfire during an eventual rebirth?
    My teacher can't explain it because he's not great at
    English but he told me I was very wrong.

    Reading that, this question comes to mind: If everyone says these 2 options are very wrong ideas, then why do you still believe in these 2 ideas? If I were you, that would be the question I would be asking of myself!

    Davidnamarupa
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran

    @dooksta123 said:
    So Buddhism is not about being enlightened so I can be shrouded in infinite darkness because the "I" has been extinguished?

    I did not mean to imply that at all. This is what your premise already implies. Buddhism is a process and is not about being anything other than ever more aware.

    With the other alternative is burning in hellfire during an eventual rebirth?

    As far as we know, this is just dogma. There are plenty of logical reasons to live a selfless life, helping others. The "I" is a tool and so seeing it as a tool, we use it as such. We don't throw it away, we learn how to control it.

    Don't worry about the illusion once its seen through but do work on the delusions that can come up if we start getting lost in duality and forgetting about non-separation.

    Compassion is not an ideal born from the fear of punishment and karma is not some righteous god that deals it out. This is because of that so we try to be aware.

    And do Buddhists hate life? My teacher can't explain it because he's not great at English but he told me I was very wrong. I just see it as despising life so I kill myself in a way that I never live again, otherwise punishment.

    If that was the way of the wise then Buddha would have just let himself rot. Instead he got up and went back the way Sidhartha came.

    He could have wandered off in any direction but he went back to the Gotamas first. Awakened, he used the "I" as a tool of the dharma instead of identifying with it.

    namarupa
  • Everyone gave such great advices already. I feel the same way. You've done a few things, but you'll need to do a little more to get to the point where you don't really ask questions, but just do the investigation.

    I find the myself in a position where it's difficult for me to practice more frequently than finding myself questioning the practice. I think you're really lucky to have the setup that you have. Don't throw it all away. Refer back to it when necessary. You'll might actually need it when life changes and creates more stress.

    silver
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2015

    OP, I didn't read your whole post yet, but one thing jumped out at me. You said sometimes you're "obsessed", and you meditate regularly, and are happy. Obsession indicates attachment, and attachment is what Buddhist practice is intended to overcome. So if you go through phases of being obsessed, that's wrong practice.

    Try lightening your grip on what you "should" be doing, any rules you've set up for yourself. You're beating yourself up for not living up to your own rules of what you "should" be doing. Also, fear is something to be overcome by Buddhist practice. Not sure why you're experiencing fear. You're not going to go to a hell realm for not meditating daily. Relax. It sounds like you're over-thinking the whole thing. You're stressing out.

    Just work on being mindful about being a good person, and find 15 minutes/day when you can sit and meditate. If life gets in the way on a given day, and there's no time, don't worry. Just get back into your routine the next day. Just do those two things. Don't bite off more than you can chew, practice-wise. Easy does it.

    And for heaven's sake, eat regular meals! Keep your blood sugar stable. You never know; your emotions could be affected by blood sugar fluctuations. You're a lay practitioner, not a monk. No need to take only one meal a day. It sounds like you go through fits of being perfectionistic about the whole Buddhist-practitioner role, and it's not working for you. Bag the perfectionism, it's a form of attachment. Instead of achieving equanimity, you're generating stress for yourself. Ease up.

  • Thanks, guys. I'm a mess. I need to relax.

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    @dooksta123 said:
    Thanks, guys. I'm a mess. I need to relax.

    My conclusion and personal plan too ... :3
    Tips to the usual place ... o:)

    All kindness gratefully appreciated. Puja welcome. Dedication of practice welcome.

    Invincible_summer
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