Now what?
smarino
florida Explorer
OK, the election is over in America, and many of probably are more than a little surprised at the outcome (which is sorta like saying that someone is a little pregnant I suppose).
So now what do we do? Do we go further into our practice and still hope that one person, or a group of like-minded people, can make a difference in a world that is going in a different direction than we want? Or do we let go of even that hope and just do what we can and let go of the outcome? Do we push it away and seek escape through the usual means that we have used in the past? Do we move to another country? Does this motivate us to work more diligently within the system of governance, or push us to protest what has happened?
Hopefully someone can give me a clue, as I am not sure what to do. The outcome was an eventuality which most of us never expected, and I am not happy, which points to the suffering caused from expectations. This is foretelling, but I had awakened on the eve of the election yesterday morning w/ an alarming thought....I don't have a Plan B if this goes wrong. I still don't.
Comments
I'm starting with trying to understand where the other side is coming from, even if I end up not agreeing.
I don't think moving solves anything, tempting as it sometimes sounds. Problems just follow us, and moving to another country is difficult and expensive.
Don't worry about it yet. He doesn't even take office for 2 months, we have time to adjust. The only thing we can do is see it through. Keep up with our practice and make differences where we can. Let go of what we can't do. I think one thing we've all largely failed on is keeping tabs on who we elect and seeing if they follow through. Trump promised to work for all Americans, I'm going to hold him to that. ALL Americans. Not just the ones he prefers. We also face a republican congress and a supreme court judge with a lifetime appointment who Trump will appoint and no doubt get easily approved. Perhaps the gridlock we've had the last 8 years won't be as present and we will make strides. Hopefully in the right direction.
All we can do is hope he does well, because if he doesn't, we're all in trouble. My main concern is his relations with other countries and his focus last night in saying he'll work with countries he likes. I was glad he was gracious towards Hillary and it was kind of fun to see his crowd go silent as he did so.
I don't believe 150 million Americans are bigoted and hateful. Some of them, sure. But not all of them. Trump's supporters feel today like I felt when we elected Obama both times. And I feel how they felt then.
Give it time. They survived Obama. We survived Bush. We survived worse in the past. We'll survive this (I hope).
When the tide comes in, you roll up your pants legs and deal with it. Go back to the basics. Breathe. Recognize your fear isn't needed. Nobody is going to round up Muslims and put them in camps, or Mexicans for that matter. We didn't elect a dictator and there are strict limits to what any President can do, as Obama discovered. A new generation is increasingly multicultural and nothing lasts forever.
The Diamond sutra uses various similes to illustrate the nature of Shunyata:
"Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream;
Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream."
"So is all conditioned existence to be seen."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śūnyatā
Now our practice becomes real.
Politics in the conventional sense is now just a form of unreality social media.
What we do is increase in the qualities that makes Buddhism Great:
Trump is empty of substance. Carry on ... America is fine. Brexit Britain is fine. Good people exist still. After the shock of Brexit, I have noticed more kindness and acceptance AFTER the haters had their little moment of hissing and spite. So expect some nasties, then expect the innate better qualities to surface ...
Everything is fine ... empty ... not worth being attached to ...
Now what?
Put our money together, buy an island, and form our own country?
Best idea I've heard yet namatupa.
Besides, in more 50 years with global warming, people will wish all they had to deal with in their lives was Trump as President. Presidents and even empires come and go, but we only have one Earth.
Trump is only the tip of this iceberg, and he won the election by appealing to a lot of people that absolutely support many of his views. It would be a mistake to discount that. This is no time for underestimating the job at hand.
I don't think it's realistic to say that a lot of people are or are not bigoted and racist (and he had a lot of support from people that weren't, or so they say) because we just don't know that, that's simply a theory. Having lived in many places in this country, I can assure you that a lot of people are exactly just that, although they may not admit it, and their belief systems prevent them from even realizing that they are that way.
The more pressing concern is not Donald Trump, it's a senate and congress completely controlled by the Republicans, and a simple majority of one vote in both houses allows laws to be pushed into place. Also troubling is that these people will assuredly nominate a conservative, right wing judge to the Supreme court to place a majority of conservatives there, which has the potential to roll back many of the hard won civil rights legislation of the past if it is challenged legally state by state.
I am still gathering information as to what my personal plan will become. It's important to not be reactive, but on the other hand it would be wise to be pro active and put SOMETHING into place nationally rather than fight something after it has been put into place.
One thing I have thought of is to simply bypass the political process and set up some sort of organization wherein all the people who oppose what is happening can start laying the groundwork for those most likely to be affected by this defacto coup of our government. I am talking about the poor, the homeless, and the ill and elderly who are at great risk if and when their meager monies, government programs and medical services are reduced or eliminated. This should be our focus as Buddhists in my opinion. We're talking survival here, not ideals.
Government money comes from us, the taxpayers, so perhaps we should attain more control over our own destiny as a civilization by forming our own collectives rather than spend a lot of money and time attempting to fix a thoroughly broken system. It could start w/ just a clear and concise website, a paypal account to accept donations, and focused attention on getting this scheme over to the media. Maybe we should start our own game rather than play theirs.
I went ahead and registered a domain name just now called governmentbyenlightment.com. I decided that later was probably too late, better to just do it now and work out the details afterwards.
Website design is not my forte though! If anyone here has some skills on that, that would be helpful. I will take care of writing copy, and figuring out if I need a separate paypal account etc. Any help or tips would be appreciated, as well as other ideas to start turning things around in the world on this issue. We could start a movement. Why not? Why not us? Thanks.
Canada.
Of course I'm upset, but no so much with any ideologies or beliefs as with the total lack of Adult Restraint on the part of the victor's partisans and his person — restraint which civil society depends upon. (C'mon, "Trump that Bitch!" What sort of insult-driven society do we really want?)
That said, prayer is the central refuge at this time. I am trying to have positive and loving thoughts of Mr. Trump. Pictures of him as a boy and a younger man help me, as I am a very visually oriented person. Metta meditation is what's always needed.
We all knew whoever got elected would be a one-term president. Maybe, after all, it's best that Hillary lost, because there are so many people determined to cut her down "by whatever means necessary." This has been well documented by The New York Times. That, along with a still-arrogant Republican Congress, would have made for an even nastier atmosphere in Washington than we've already suffered through our beloved President Obama's detractors.
We can continue to be a voice speaking out against the hatred and racism and bigotry that Trump tapped into in order to motivate his base. Even if it was a deliberate ploy and with him now making "we must heal and come together" remarks, this is a wildfire that is not easily put back out. It doesn't help that at the same time Trump is talking working together, both Republican leaders were gloating and saying they were going to get rid of Obamacare first thing and have a "bold agenda" and how a man who didn't win the popular vote has a "mandate". It's the same old same old. Only having a slim majority in the Senate, they are not going to be handed the keys to the nation. And the courts have decided on several important social issues even before their most extreme right wing justice died so important rights won't be rolled back. Still, the haters have already been emboldened. So we continue to speak for the people without a voice. It's about all we can do.
Nope. Apparently, you're not welcome here. Don Cherry has spoken.
The nation is pretty evenly divided, and we are different. We won't ever get to a point where we all agree on how to solve our problems. Each side has its strengths and weaknesses, IMO the best solutions usually involve some from each side. So my thinking is that the biggest threat to the US isn't one political party or another but the fact that we no longer just disagree with each other but increasingly see the other side as disgusting and evil, an actual threat. Since we won't ever fully agree, and we shouldn't, we have to work together. An inability to do so will bring us down faster than one party rule.
Did you spell it like so
enlightenment
or as you posted?
I liked what Trudeau had to say better than slimy Don Cherry, lol.
I just watched the Trump victory speech and he seems like a different person. Totally normal and subdued, he was talking about rebuilding the infrastructure.
My very first impression of him was that he was putting on a show for the republicans in the primaries but when he didn't moderate after winning the nomination I became pretty convinced that he was uncontrollably like that. Here's hoping that he actually is a normal human being.
I watched him last night @person and thought yeah, very different Trump. But pretty different Hillary today, too. I wish they could maintain that and debate issues instead of the vicious attacks we have to deal with for so long. Who knows which Trump will show up in the White House. The future readers suggest he will seek to erase everything Obama did. But, the future readers have been wrong at every step so far. I'm sorry so many people feel unsafe and unsure about their futures. I hope like hell that he was a lot of bluster to get elected and will be more civil as a leader that he claims is for ALL Americans. I hope he knows what that means.
@person and @karasti you mean the Donald Duck President can read a scripted speech? Tee hee. Oops bad mouthing the unfortunate 'billionaire saviour' already ... [as @federica told us to be good little bunnies ... I will apologise.]
Sorry America.
Hey they didn't even let me vote, I really want London and maybe the UK to be USA 'offshore Europe' Brexit State (yep let's rebrand) ... Then Trump would become Queen ...
... and now back to reality ... allegedly ...
All over the world the right-wing is gaining power. There is a pattern here. Is this because the left has failed or because liberals are perceived as the snobbish elite that cares little for the layperson? Is this why working class people are frustrated with the left/liberal and are therefore moving towards the right? Maybe some of them really are xenophobic, but is it possible that most of them are just frustrated with the left/liberal elite?
Continue living your daily life in an appropriate manner. The world won't end just because of Donald Trump.
Until President-elect Trump takes the oath of office and indeed shows us what he really intends by the actions he takes I will be neutral. The experts had it all wrong. I like many others certainly never expected him to be the next president.
... and the First Family is certainly getting a makeover:
^This doesn't help. Let the past be "passed."
It's the tenor of complete unrestraint and incivility broadcast by Trump and so very many of his supporters that frightens me, and the above is caving in to that. This craving for evil thoughts just CANNOT stand. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with you, @genkaku.
Well yes. Unrestraint and in civility are not welcome, although I dare say that a few near-naked pictures of the future FLOTUS are far from the worst that is happening.
Donald Trump as moral centre of the worlds most powerful country. Who knows, perhaps the end days are truly upon us
@nirvana -- Oh how I wish the incivilities of my past might so blithely be wiped away! But I figure if I cannot take responsibility for my empirically-obvious life, what sort of result can I expect ... and likewise anyone else?
I never equated come-hither nakedness with evil, but I suppose you can do that if you want.
Disrespectfulness is not emblematic of civility. Evil (Depravity) consists in foisting ones willfulness upon others, regardless of who's hurt.
There are some people whose past deeds may not e'er be forgot, but usually it's because they could never be accused of having any semblance of essential sweetness. @genkaku
Move on with our lives.
Go with the flow of impermanence.
Trump is one more clown -and won't be the last- in an endless list that encompasses billions of years of history.
He'll be a speck of dust eventually.
Hear hear. I think it is time to "put on the leather shoes" that you spoke of in another thread.
Ohhhhh.... believe me, @Bunks, I'm donning my leather shoes here.
I didn't mean that with bitterness nor anger.
I'm totally neutral here.
It's done. The die are cast. It'll pass...
Your Plan "B" @smarino is "Buddhadharma" it will see you through these troubling times ...
His infrastructure speech didn't come across subdued and normal to be. It came across as grandstanding. In the same speech, he also said he was going to pursue "tax reform" (cut taxes for the rich, like Bush II). It was as nonsensical as any of his other utterances. Furthermore, it was Obama's initiative to put people back to work through infrastructure projects (actually: FDR's iniative). He was prevented from doing it by a Republican Congress that insisted the budget couldn't afford it. Now, suddenly, the budget can afford it, and on the basis of LESS tax revenues, even? No. Just no. Not normal, not subdued.
NATO is freaking out because he's made statements that have lead members to question whether the US is going to withdraw. A spokesperson for the Norwegian government (Norway has seen a sudden troop buildup on the Russian side of its border) was bewildered, and reminded Trump that since 9/11, NATO's work has been on behalf of the US' anti-terrorism security concerns. The Baltic states are very nervous over Trump's waffling on NATO, with Russia posed on their eastern flank, after the invasion of Ukraine.
He's declared he'll withdraw the US from the Paris global-warming accord, will end US contributions to any global-warming-related projects at the UN, and will spur coal energy development in the US.
He's coming across like a loose cannon. It's very worrisome.
I'm only worried for the next two years. The 2018 midterm elections will doubtless yield Mr. Trump very bitter fruit.
The politics is not really all that important in the long term (I hope.). All democracies work on a pendulum from liberal to conservative. It's the rancor that's so troublesome to me; but the Tea Party and Arch-Ugly Mitch McConnell started that.
May The Great Force deliver us from Delusion! And make all of us kind, considerate, and forbearing!
A lot of the problem, @techie is that there is a lot of misunderstanding of who is to blame for the problems people perceive. Yes, the working class is suffering. But who looks at why? They are suffering due to laws that need to be changed. Clinton's mistake was in not taking that seriously and addressing their needs and that they have been left behind. She lost solid democratic states because of that failure. But, Bernie was way more left than her and he handily won those same states in the primary. I think people want someone to look out for them, and they are willing to cross party lines to find that person. Trump addressed their issues, and he won. Even though some of those people would have voted Bernie instead. Trump takes advantage of the laws in place to make him richer. He is one who has gotten rich off the backs of the working class his entire life, and he got them to elect him. Many would rather have voted for a democrat/left who made the same promises, but the democrats put up an awful candidate. Trump would not have won if Hillary were not his competition.
Right wing voters are largely rural voters. People who don't take the time to vote unless their lives have been impacted and people who think they cannot afford to look out for anyone but themselves. That was another big point of Trump's-to take care of Americans and stop focusing on everyone else. Our rural population is only 20% of our total population. But so many of them voted that they were the tide turners. I think people are tired of not being listened to and being left behind on behalf of urban areas that get al the benefits (in their mind). I don't know if that is the same in other countries. But I'd be in Europe where some countries are putting up right wing candidates that are doing well it has a lot ot do with immigration and thus the same type of issue. A lack of focus on taking care of the people within the country versus "outsiders" (from their perspective).
I felt the risk was very high that he would be. Voter suppression efforts by Trump supporters in the Republican Party structure were in full swing months ago. One Trump staffer proudly detailed on national radio his process of going through the voter registration rolls, and targeting names to be dropped from the rolls, for supposed double-registration in another precinct, relocations, etc. A lawyer on the same program said it was illegal to be doing that within 90 days of the election, yet no one stopped this illegal activity by an entire team of operatives. On election day, some precincts only had one electronic machine in which to register voters' completed paper ballots; people stood in line for hours just to enter their ballots into the reader-machine, while many gave up and left.
Knowing how effective Republican voter suppression strategies had been in the Bush/Kerry election and the first Obama election (7 million votes for Obama were prevented or subverted by various means, though because of the landslide, he overcame that), I knew Hillary would have to create a landslide in order to win even a modest victory. A Dem victory can never be taken for granted, not after Bush/Gore and Bush/Kerry, after which Congress found that Kerry would have won the electoral college, had voting proceeded fairly, without obstruction.
New Mexico, a swing state in that election, voted overwhelmingly for Kerry, but a lawsuit later revealed proof that rigged voting machines targeting rural Hispanic and Native American communities (those ethnic groups alone constitute 60% of NM voters) registered blanks in place of Kerry votes on all ballots. Electronic voting is now illegal in NM, as a result. Paper ballots only.
Now that the Republicans will control Congress, there will be no Congressional investigation into voter suppression in this election, contrary to the past 3 elections mentioned above. We probably will never know how many Hillary votes were lost. All we know is that on election day, in some precincts, voting machines, as reported on national news later in the day, were registering the opposite candidate to the one people were entering. Reports didn't say whether that "glitch" consistently favored a certain candidate.
Complacency on election day is dangerous. Now we've seen the result of that. The Party of Voter Suppression has won.
And Clinton would have won (so far as things are tallied now anyhow) without the EC as well. I think it's purpose has passed. Our population is spread out enough to ensure that one state cannot take the election or collude with another one to make it happen. Our biggest states are a decent spread of blue, red and swing. The past many years since the 2000 fiasco, experts have said we keep the EC because it ensures a qualified candidate. So that the populace can't get wild and elect a nutojb who isn't qualified to the presidential office. Isn't it "funny" that the people elected Clinton but the EC, which is supposed to protect us from unqualified candidates is going to put the most unqualified candidate ever into office? Huh.
Wow! I'll have to review the history of the EC.
Just wow.
I'm with you @Nirvana, enough of the demonization. The country is too divided and stuck in their own media bubbles. We are totally unable to hear or understand the other side anymore.
Now what? Step outside of your own bubble and make an effort to understand the point of view of the other side. They aren't devils, they are people who understand the world differently than you do.
I agree, the majority of them are just people like us, who we'd never think badly of if we met them and never talked politics. But there are right now thousands of stories with picture and/or video proof of people misbehaving horribly in Trump's name. This doesn't mean Trump condones it, but if he's not going to condemn it (like he did his whole campaign...refused to condemn the KKK and so on) he might as well be giving them permission. He needs to step up and do something to quell the extremes on both sides. This is his job now. He cannot ignore what is going on between the protests and the hateful things people are saying and doing in his name.
People are not very open to hearing positive things right now. They are wallowing in their anger and that is what they want. I posted on FB I was going to do yoga to get out of my head and have some calming tea and several people told me "that's what you are going to do because you are privileged and cannot see what is going on." What? No, that's not it at all. And these are friends of mine who know me well. They are too angry to see anything but things to be angry about. It is a hard time. I want to support my online friends, some of whom have been targets for his Trump-based hatred already, but it's so upsetting I become sullen and withdrawn and my family deserves better. But it's hard to disconnect from the tension that is palpable everywhere, and try to enjoy daily life right now. Tough days.
God bless America!
Yes, the anger is what I have the hardest time with. I wish it were different but how can we change it, angry people get to have their say too. Take care of yourself, when it drags you down you can't help pull anyone else out of it.
I iz tough. When the going gets tough, it is being strong for others that supports and is supported by our practice.
Iz as ever, plan!
I think I will focus on direct conversation with my friends and not getting into discussions. I can support and love them without getting into it with angry people.
Love iz plan.
It turns out that there's still a slim chance the Electoral College could throw the election to Clinton, exercising the right to protect the nation from an unfit President, that you mentioned. After reviewing everything I could find on Electoral College law, I think it's highly unlikely, because most Electors are required by state law or by pledges to the party that elected them to the post, to uphold the popular vote. But there are enough, apparently, who are free to vote as they see fit for the nation, and the penalty for some who break their pledge is small enough, that there could be a surprise in December, when the EC actually votes.
However, it will still be a Republican-controlled Congress in 2017, so if a surprise election overturn happened, Congress could make life hell for Hillary. I wouldn't want to walk into that situation, if I were her. Maybe some of the more moderate Republicans would be open to bi-partisanship, who knows. But the situation would be very dicey, no matter what.
So the last shred of hope is that some Electors go rogue in December, and spare the nation from the President who is set on trashing the environment, turning up the heat on global warming, allowing racist hysteria to run amok, and wreaking other havoc. But I'm not going to hold my breath.
And Hillary is only the lesser of the two evils, anyway. She has been promoting fracking world-wide, and wants to sign the Pacific trade agreement, if I'm not mistaken. And I'm a bit worried about what her relationship with Russia would be like. Pravda has been accusing the US of moving toward WWIII in Syria, so we know what's on their mind.
My reaction is to take @karasti and @Dakini s posts and blend them.
It's time to find the fine line between placing blame and defending the diversity of life. We can fight back without the anger that blinds with goals of well-being as our focus.
I know I'm not in the States but it's just on the other side of the lake and borders are imaginary anyways.
People are scared and angry up here as well and there are some that applaud Trump getting in. If I was there I would have had no choice but to vote Hillary even as I think she's just as much of a nut job as your average war monger.
And I don't want to demonize anybody but there are people out there that simply want to cause harm. And other even worse people that will perpetuate harm caused by others so they can gain from it.
Yes they are all suffering and want to be happy and know not what they do but they still have to be stopped.
@DhammaDragon's post put me in mind of Shelley's "Ozymandias":
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Which cheers me up a bit. But I'm really scared too. First Brexit and now this. I wonder how history lessons in our grandchildren's time will look back on these days.
@Dakini Yes. I see it very unlikely, especially because it would mean political suicide, especially for democrats in red states who hold their positions tenuously anyhow. Republicans are mostly too excited to move their agenda so I think even the reluctant will be on board with Trump. It is another thing in this election that has brought more people to learn about the process and realize it needs changes. The EC could even be modified to be more balanced, such as Maine and NE do where their electoral votes get split.
My son texted me and said Trump has set up a page to take input from the citizens. I think we need to flood his staff, starting with the request that he stand up and say something to assure the frightened Americans and quell the people acting badly in his name. It would be a first step towards his promise of unity.
www.greatagain.gov
What now? Now we just hang on, focus on our practice, and deal with the situation in front of us. People are frightened and angry, and they have reason to be. Our world is under stress, and when societies are under stress they retreat to tribalism and either isolate themselves or seek to expand. They look for strong leaders, even if that strength is all bluster and threats. We start to look at the people inside our walls that are not "one of us" in some way. We are seeing this around the world. It's the history of humanity.
We each have one vote, and one voice. Use them wisely.