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Where is everyone?
DairyLama
Veteran Veteran
This used to be a busy, lively forum, but now it seems like just a handful of regular posters. How has this happened?
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Yeah, I’ve been rather sad about it of late. If you search back in the old threads you’ll see much more of a multiplicity of voices. A few people left, a few regular posters got banned, one or two regulars got old and died, and not enough new people stayed and let their voices be heard.
I did make a rather radical suggestion to @Brian about coupling it to a YouTube channel not so long ago, I have seen a few examples of YouTube channels driving a lot of new users to a forum. Although it does beg the question who is going to make the features for the channel.
There's nothing wrong in principle with a small group of regular posters, but experience suggests that it can become too parochial, too comfortable, too closed off, unreceptive to challenging views.
This ambience is not attractive or interesting, either to newcomers (ironic, given the name of the forum), or to those with more experience. Moderation style is obviously a factor. Scapegoating or banning people who don't "fit in" would be exactly the wrong thing to do in these circumstances. On the contrary, you'd want to welcome and encourage people with diverse views. But that requires a degree of openess which I'm not sure is currently available.
Time will tell.
I have to admit, I generally just use this forum for social reasons. I consider the regulars on here both Dhamma friends and confidantes.
It has to be said @bunks, there has been less straight buddhist content since you went with the Pure Land stream. It’s when just one of several influential posters changes his habits the whole tonality of the forum changes.
That's a good thlng, but it's not conducive to new people.
If there's lots of people posting, that wouldn't be a problem.
In fairness, I think most of the regular people on here have their own set Buddhist (or other) traditions / paths that they follow.
I do anyway.
And if I want to discuss specifics about the traditions or teachers I follow, I will reach out on other platforms to people who also follow them (as people on here don't).
I am not really interested in the opinions or feedback from people that don't follow the same tradition or teachers as me. I don't have time to debate whether what I am doing is wrong or right.
If someone new (or otherwise) comes on and asks a general question about practice I'll answer it from the viewpoint of my tradition(s).
But if they start a thread specific to their tradition, I don't really have much to say.
But I have grown fond of all the regulars on here and enjoy hearing about what they're up to (from a practice point of view or otherwise).
Ooooo, does that mean I'm an "influencer"?
YOU LEFT, that's what happened! Where the &$#!! have you been??!!
For the record, for every applicant we get, on average, there are at least 50 spambot requests. All applicants have to be approved. Simply because they might be approved, is no guarantee they will actually jump in, contribute comment or even make themselves known. Jason and I have approved several members this past month. Of course you wouldn't know that. No new member has actually participated.
Moderation style has had nothing to do with the rapid decline of the forum. I have pointed out the dwindling numbers to our distinguished founders, @Linc and @Brian. And that was a good while ago.
They are aware, but it's fair to say that as with everything, there's a beginning, a middle and an end... and this is no exception.
But unless a member is actually banned, the door is never closed.
As is evident by @DairyLama 's current return. Many members withdraw, but occasionally, they come back.
And they are very welcome, it's nice to see prodigals ! 😁
Perhaps...
I've had lots of interesting adventures. 😆How have you been?
It's all part of the Secher Nbiw.
@federica I think if NewBuddhist is holding its own, which it seems to be doing, that's far better than most conventional online Buddhist (and other) forums are doing. I've been on other forums that took a month or two off for a re-design or other reasons, and were never able to recover their activity level after that. Some were quite good, so it was a loss.
What seems to be going on, is that a giant shift took place a few years ago to Facebook chatrooms. While that format is rewarding for some, since it allows an in-real-time give-and-take, the downside IMO is, that you have no archive of past discussions. You can't look up material to quote or to learn from, you can't look up important links that may have been posted in the course of a given discussion, and so forth. The conventional forum format is a much better research resource in that way.
So, in view of that major development in the netosphere, NB is doing pretty well. And now we have Dairy Lama back with us! Definitely a positive development.
Or a can of worms. 😋
I noticed it, although I didn’t know what was going on. Several of the forum communities I have been part of have had a significant drop in memberships over the past three or four years. I think it’s a shame, I don’t rate Facebook as a place to be. It’s much too easy for people to track your past activity, you’re very visible, to name just one downside.
It’s true that some boards make much better use of their archive of good posts than others. If you look at StackExchange or Quora, those impose a question-and-answer format on their discussions and then make things searchable. Standard forums with a lot of searchable independent boards have a different way of organising their knowledge by category. Reddit seems to be doing well too.
Forums, culturally, are not popular anymore. Online communities are evolving rapidly. Most younger people connect with the world through mobile phones and through content-driven apps and networks; they find community not through written word but through video and voice chat. Long-form typing paragraphs and sentences to communicate is becoming passe and dated, and it's not made easy on a mobile device.
Looking for fresh acolytes : NB cult!
For more information --> Lobster us
Remembering the good old days?? They were fun. We didn’t even know we were in them, haha. That’s always the way, isn’t it?
…..Will always have nothing but love for this here living room. 
This place was a big deal for my practice and a nice support group.
OK. Though I can think of other similar forums which are still quite busy, which suggests that for some reason people are choosing to go elsewhere.
It depends of course whether you're content with dwindling activity and a degree of stagnation.
I’m sure it plays a role, but I think it’s also a matter of what role the software that you use casts your forum in. In a way NB is not that different from Facebook, with the primary interface being the roll of recently discussed topics, and a very light feedback mechanism.
Long-form communication is still popular in other areas such as on StackExchange or Quora. These have more reasons to search past content, more organised systems for categorising past threads, more gameified systems for encouraging people to contribute. And the Actualized.org forum is very busy with young people coming in from its YouTube channel.
Stack Exchange has a more "academic" feel, but most discussion forums are quite easy to use in my experience. So it's probably about style, content, and "target audience".
Zenforuminternational crashed and burned. Other lesser Buddhist forums have disappeared. One was archived after its founder passed away. Freesangha was being dominated by that frubious bandersnatch, Dede, who used to haunt our forum. He's been trying to take over FreeSangha for a few years now, after activity dwindled and the admins got too busy with other things. That leaves only the two "Wheels": Dharmawheel and Dhammawheel, as the ones with a relatively high participation rate. Are you on Dhammawheel? You might enjoy it.
FreeSangha is now modded by Chaz, though activity there is also low. I investigated the possibility of buying the site at one stage, but they weren't ready to sell. Not sure who "Dede" is - do you mean Element?
I'm very familiar with Dhammawheel, and have also spent time on the Sutta Central Forum, and on Stack Exchange. Among others.
There is still a lot going on, forum-wise, but clearly some sites have fared better than others.
Maybe I just get bored easily. 😋
Just thinking out loud, but the name of this forum is entirely incongruous with the membership and content.
@DairyLama
Perhaps...
Not to admirers or proponents of "Zen mind/ beginners mind".
Not to anyone really. It's quite misleading.
That’s somewhat true. Instead of new Buddhists talking about Buddhism, there are lots of old Buddhists talking about everything but Buddhism.
More accurately, it's a bunch of old perennialists, syncretisists and new-agers with Buddhist sympathies.
This is fine with me, but undoubtedly it's confusing for new-comers.
In any case, the current forum name is farcical, and probably a major factor in dwindling membership and activity.
That’s a little unkind. I doubt most of the membership would self-identify in those categories, and most people here have enough genuine Buddhist knowledge that they could be called Buddhists.
I think it has to be said that there aren’t that many actual Buddhist discussions, because a lot of these old Buddhists have found their directions and are comfortably settled in their practice.
I’m still seeking. Four years ago when I joined I was not long on the Buddhist path, and since then I’ve been through several evolutions, from enthusiastic to disenchanted. Currently I style myself as half a Buddhist, and I generate quite a few eclectic topics. But when a youngster arrives I still pitch in with Buddhist answers.
People are free to spend their time elsewhere if NB is not to their liking. They are also free to make it something different or better with their participation.
It's not meant to be unkind, it's meant as a challenge to the obvious complacency in this place.
I think the observations I've made are pretty accurate. You can either deal with them, or stick your head in the sand (again).
So if I don't agree with you, I should go elsewhere? How very open-minded of you. You're not NB.
Actually I'm suggesting something different. How about it? Or are you too comfortable with the status quo?
A few years before you took your break from us, New Buddhist got a favorable review as the best forum for newbies to Buddhism, or the best forum for young people new to Buddhism. That review appeared in one of the Dharma mags. This boosted membership significantly. So in that sense, the forum name is appropriate.
I sometimes do miss the old days, when people like yourself and Simon, and others who had studied the sutras in depth got into philosophical discussions of a more in-depth or arcane nature; those were fun and instructive to read. But on a positive note, the forum has also managed to slough off the perennial trolls that plagued it. I'm happy with that. .People at least are respectful of each other now, which is pretty unusual for an online forum. I'm happy with the absence of drama.
Oh, and btw, if you miss some of those people, they're over on Dramawheel. oops, er...I mean Dharmawheel.
Some are lost in the grains of sand
https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/The_Golden_Path
Some dust, some spicy. Some barbecuing, simmering, lurking or passing through. Some dead. All heading for death (in case you are heading elsewhere). Fortunately we have a new logo in preparation, new heretics shortly and possibly a new moderator.
musical interlude
The thing is, Brian didn't start this to have a big site that drew in tons of people. He just wanted to make an online forum for new Buddhists and others to hang out and talk. It's a laid back place akin to a friend's living room. If people don't want to hang, that's fine. If they have other stuff they want to talk about, that's fine. But if they start to harass and attack people and are exceptionally rude, then they're shown the door. Would it be nice if there were more discussions and member participation? Sure. But do I miss the nonstop debates about self vs no-self or the sectarian debates about which vehicle is better? Not at all. I also don't miss all the trolls who liked to come here just to fight with people, especially the moderators, because they don't like what they say or how Brian constructed this site and its rules. But the internet is a big place, and there are plenty of other places to go if they don't care for the company here.
That's not what I said. And you don't have make yourself into such a martyr. Nobody here is out to get you.
Didn't you see Jason's titles by his name: God, Emperor, Moderator? That pretty much means he's not only Spiritual and Temporal Ruler (like the Dalai Lama used to be), but also Honcho Moderator. We do prostrations to him as part of our practice.
Complacency? Any member is welcome to generate topics on NB. If you think you see complacency you’re accusing the whole community of … what exactly? Not being interesting enough? In any case if you think you can do better on a day-to-day basis, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is, and generate a few of the right kind of topics. Be the change that you want to see.
Hmm
Different strokes for different folks
Sounds like whining to me.
Actually, I’m not sure I see what precisely you are suggesting. Maybe you’d clarify?
I'll tell you what, Dairy Lama; what about we go back to jousting over self/no-self/True Self? Wouldn't that be easier? I mean, isn't that kind of what you're looking for, anyway--a good old-fashioned debate? Rather than Dharmic chit-chat? That's how I understand the point you're trying to get across, anyway. I'm game if you are!
Hmm...Who is game and if who is ?
As long as everyone is courteous and mindful of speech and we all take note of and not present logical fallacy, it could be fun.
That Dairy Llama always was a little gamey...
Better question might be, "Where is every 'not two'?"
Perhaps a flame mistakenly thought this firehouse might be a good place to look for more fuel.
I mean, I haven't been called a confused Taoist for a couple of years now.
Yeah, we need more of that stuff.
The vast majority of the time, I mind my P's and Q's and behave in a tactful, discreet and diplomatic manner.
I confess, this isn't one of those 'times'.
DairyLama left because of a difference of opinion. Nobody pushed him. He left of his own accord.
Now he's back, and within a short space of time, is complaining again.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...
As I have already stated in the "No Buddhist quotes" thread, "If you knows of a better hole, go to it."
If you went to restaurant, and you didn't like the displayed menu at all, would you still go in, eat a meal and pay for it?
Somehow, I doubt it.