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Did Buddha Teach the Tantras and Tantric Sex? And What is this Teaching?
Vincenzi,you are acting as an authority moreso than Tibetan buddhists claiming authority over other schools! I am calling you on your hypocrisy, Vincenzi. You are also an authority on psychiatry I understand and this is the same. Ease up, buddy!
Show me one statement leading anyone to believe that a Tibetan buddhist feels they have authority over zen or theravada? One? You have made several claiming you know whats best for TB. Therefore you are an authority in your mind.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
edited June 2011
I don't remember reading anything about there being a Kalacakra mandala in the lobby of the World Trade Ctr. before/during 9/11.
Its just a quote from what Trimondi said, if its not true thats even worse.He says in a paragraph after the quoted material that he thinks it was around '96
I didn't said I'm an authority over anything. In the case of psychiatry I just concluded that it is baseless and worthless. In the case of TB, I just said that THEY are acting in an authoritarian way.
"I didn't said I'm an authority over anything. In the case of psychiatry I just concluded that it is baseless and worthless. In the case of TB, I just said that THEY are acting in an authoritarian way.
"Today, Ven. Ngawang is best known for making colored sand mandalas. He has constructed sand mandalas in places all around the world. In 1994, he worked with other monks to make a mandala in the World Trade Center in New York City."
I'm going by your original statement. You said that gurus thought that they had authority over other schools. You should have been clearer that you are an religious anarchist. Now I understand. I am not an anarchast, but thanks.
Here is what you said "authority figures have no say on practitioners of other schools, and may and should be called upon if in fault (see other points)."
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
13. Again, it should be noted here that the Trimondis were among the Dalai Lama’s most devoted professional, political and spiritual associates. What they have to say is not to be taken lightly. The Trimondis editorialize about their fears concerning the propagation of the Dalai Lama’s spiritual/political philosophy: “TRIMONDI: We are really uneasy, if you ask us, as to what may potentially happen if this ‘Buddhist-Jihad-Ideology’ of the Kalachakra Tantra will become a new vision of the Chinese political self-understanding. Will the much more peaceful and softer philosophy of Daoism and Confucianism be replaced by the ‘Shambhala Warrior Doctrine’, which was once propagated in thirties by the Japanese Shinto-Fascists to mobilize the Mongolian minorities of Manchuria and West China? If the present situation in Europe is any indicator, we must say that we are alarmed as we witness the rising interest in Germany [on the part] of Fascist, Neo-fascist and Nazi-intellectuals and in Asia of a terrorist like the Japanese Doomsday Guru Shoko Asahara in the ideological concepts of the Shambhala War of the Kalachakra Tantra. This should be a Menetekel, that the ‘writing is on the wall’ as a major wake-up call for the West.”
Please, we're really supposed to believe that HHDL is secretly planning a hostile takeover of the world through Buddhist ritual? I guess the teachings of Shambala in the Kalachakra could be perverted for that use, but does anyone actually think that the Tibetans would secretly hope for the takeover of the world while publicly calling for a peaceful resolution to the situation in their country. I have to seriously question this guys interpretation of the Kalachakra.
now I see the understanding: "authority figures have no say on practitioners of other schools" this was just stating a fact, not implying that TB "holy gurus" think they have a say on other schools.
because of that fact, this follows: "and may and should be called upon if in fault (see other points)."
the problem with the kalachakra is that it easily leads to confrontation with other religions (basing this on comments on some wesbites and the wiki article) and to sexual abuse (basing this on comments on some wesbites).
How can the Dalai Lama say the Kalachakra initiation is for world peace if it's really about some Buddhist supremacy movement? Can somebody explain this? I took a look online at a book on the Kalachakra, and didn't see anything like Shambala wars. Maybe I missed an important chapter...??
Wasn't there an attempted bombing of the World Trade Center in the early 1990's?
The SpitFire doc. says that "much of this program is based on the Dalai Lama's participation in the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization, headed by .....von Hapsburg". This is complete crap. I'm familiar with UNPO, I attended one of their General Assemblies. It is not now, nor has it ever been, headed by any von Hapsburg. Tibet's participation there has nothing to do with some Shambala war or supremacy scenario. The organization was formed in order to provide a platform for ethnic minorities and indigenous peoples with no representation at the UN. It's an "alternative UN" for out-groups. So I hereby declare the author of that article a crank. :grumble:
@Jeffrey I think you misunderstood Vincenzi. I took his comment about authority figures not having any say over other schools to mean that there's no accountability in TB for lamas, teachers, or monks who break their vows or who behave outside the norms for spiritual teachers. Or something along those lines.
Are we off topic yet? Kalachakra conspiracy theories aren't in the OP, are they? Jeffrey, do you want to start a thread about the Kalachakra? Is anyone even qualified to comment, really? Other than on what's already been pointed out, the tantric part?
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
the problem with the kalachakra is that it easily leads to confrontation with other religions (basing this on comments on some wesbites and the wiki article) and to sexual abuse (basing this on comments on some wesbites).
Agreed, but thats a fault of the people, its not inherent in the Kalachakra. Its not like the Kalachakra is being taught as a central component in TB.
Ah, thanks Vincenzi for clarifying. I too don't want to be associated with abuse and forcing of any kind. I haven't seen that in my sangha. Granted I am a long distance learner.
The course I am taking I gravitate towards. Its really great I think. Are you aware that there are Lam Rim teachings? In Tibetan Buddhism? I think that some of the damage done by corrupt gurus is that it poisons others against the sincere students. I am a practitioner of the Lam Rim path and I have found the approach of Pema Chodron, Trungpa Rinpoche, and my teacher to contain wisdom. It sounds so.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
Are we off topic yet? Kalachakra conspiracy theories aren't in the OP, are they? Jeffrey, do you want to start a thread about the Kalachakra? Is anyone even qualified to comment, really? Other than on what's already been pointed out, the tantric part?
Much of the argument of the thread is based on the book, 'Shadows of the Dalai Lama' written by Trimondi, so I think taking a look at some of his other views can shed some light on how seriously we should take his interpretation of the Kalachakra.
Also, here's a link to the part of the Kalachakra that talks about Shambala.
I didn't see anything about shambala there, but there are links at the bottom to the "Shambala" section, and to a section about "non-Indic invaders" (referring to Islam and Christianity, and others). Berzin says he can't explain everything, but he tries to clarify some terms and gives some background.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
edited June 2011
I didn't see anything about shambala there, but there are links at the bottom to the "Shambala" section, and to a section about "non-Indic invaders" (referring to Islam and Christianity, and others). Berzin says he can't explain everything, but he tries to clarify some terms and gives some background.
Hmm, when I click on it, it takes me right to the section on Shambala. If you scroll up one paragraph it talks about a war in the year 2424 of this common era. Which according to my math puts the year at 1941 by our calendar, so I guess it was WW2 and now we're living in the golden age where everything is conducive to spiritual practice. :hrm: My interpretation is that it seems similar to the idea of armageddon, but I don't see anywhere it mentioning that we're supposed to go to war and fight the 'barbarians'.
I see now, person. Elsewhere, the term "barbarians" is explained. hmm...if you're right, and WW2 is what was intended, then it makes it all moot, doesn't it? And notice that it says the Kalachakra was conferred on the residents of Shambala to help them unite and avoid annihilation. Maybe that's why it the mandala was placed in the World Trade Ctr? To help ward off annihilation? Too bad it didn't work.
Anyhow, it's worth noting that the authors, Victor and Victoria Trimondi, are Ma.rxist activists from Germany who see the wholesale destruction of traditional societies as part of organizing radical consciousness. They've been parroting Ma.o's line since Deng took over and stopped doing so.
Reading the fabrication of the previous poster I deem it necessary to post facts about V. Trimondi:
Herbert Roettgen, that's his real name, was born in 1940 and studied religious science. He has written three books:
1. The Shadow of the Dalai Lama published 1999 2. Hitler-Buddha-Krishna (an unholy alliance) published 2002 3. War of Religions published 2006
The original language of all 3 books is German. I’m not sure whether the last two books were published in English as well.
Trimondi was active in the 68 movement but this is no criteria for labelling him a Marxist. If everybody who participated in this movement is a Marxist then former German PM (Bundeskanzler) Schroeder and FM Fischer are Marxists as well. It only shows that in the eyes of the previous poster everybody who does not agree with his world view is a Marxist. This is pathetic.
----
Trying to find out more about them, but they possibly have a political agenda.
Anyone reading this should actually go to the website and read the entire comments by all.
1. Being a Marxist does not make one a Nazi or a China sympathizer either. Just because some call Obama a Nazi, doesn't make him a Nazi.
2. People do their best to put the Timondis down, but when you get the books, well, you can see for yourself if what they have said is true. After all they were students of the Dalai Lama's and published his books, and that is when they parted ways because they learned too much.
The Chopel book is a sex guide, but he got his ideas from the Tantras, which is obvious since young children are being used just as they are in the Kalachakra Tantra. And while a lama is supposed to have a consort equal in footing to him, it doesn't always work that way, not from what I have seen. In my tantra book a woman over 21 is not to be used for a real consort. do you think 21 year olds are at the same level as a lama? (This is a question to everyone.)
One person wrote: "You are just blindfolded. Marxism in the eye of an American is different from the view of a continental European. Look ar Rush Limbaugh. For him even democrats are communists. Enough said.
The Trimondi's have already stated a dedication to "radical consciousness" and their writings draw upon Marxist ideas about psychology and culture to work.
I think you don't know anything about Marxism, Satsu. I've actually written stuff from that perspective, particularly as it involves the division of labor creating a diminution of the senses and waning sense of the world's gestalt, I know what Marxism is, what Marxist critical theory is and I know how to spot people that sit in different Marxist camps. You, on the other hand, seem to know nothing about the topic whatever.
I imagine that if you asked the Trimondi's, they'd have the same criticism of China's current policies as Parenti. "
the above link takes you to a review of the book on a nazi website. the unholy allegiance is that hitler used buddhist and hindu texts. he had even read about the U.S. removal of Indians and applied it to the removal of Jews. this too is an unholy alliance.
"Many of the themes raised in the Kalachakra Tantra (a cyclical view of the world, global domination, the use of super weapons, magic and ritual in sexual practices etc) are key themes in religious fascism."
After reading an interview with Trimondi its apparent to me that he sees the Kalachakra tantra through the lense of avoiding nazi Germany (he's a German).
Trimondi: Yes, it is astonishing why the Jewish Community is so uncritical vis-à-vis the Dalai Lama. On 09.04.03 the Swiss Newspaper Neue Zürcher Zeitung reported, that the Tibetan religious leader said on a journey in Jerusalem,
"Hitler would also have the potential of a good man in himself. Hitler was not born as a wicked man, his hatred of the Jewish people made him malicious and this hatred must be battled. But this doesn’t mean that there was not also lying dormant some Goodness in Hitler. A wicked man can be tomorrow a good man, said the Dalai Lama. For this we have to fight."
Also if such a statement can be interpreted as an expression of Buddhist compassion, it seems tasteless remembering the murdering of six million Jews by the Nazis and the death of millions and millions of war victims on the account of Hitler’s madness. There would be a worldwide protest, if for example the Pope or a Western statesman made such a sympathetic remark on the most prominent mass murderer in human history, especially if such a remark is done in Israel, where many survivors of the Holocaust and their children are living.
---
This seems like an obvious misunderstanding of what Buddhism stands for and he's looking at it from a political point of view rather than a spiritual one.
Also
"The intricate Mandala, constructed during the Kalachakra Ceremony, is made with coloured sand and symbolizes the whole universe. At the end of the ritualistic performance the sand construction will be destroyed by the Tibetan monks. The so called “dismantling” of the sand Mandala symbolizes the destruction of the world and of the universe. This is part of the apocalyptic Doomsday Scenarios in the Kalachakra prophecies which culminate in a final battle and the End of our planet. Nevertheless the construction and destruction of the Mandala is presented by the Dalai Lama as a contribution to world peace.
...
In our studies it was alarming to find that following the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993 a Wheel of Time (Kalachakra) Sand Mandala was built in the lobby of Tower One. For over thirty days, many of the World Trade Center workers and visitors were invited by the Tibetan Monks to participate in the construction of this Mandala. When the Dalai Lama visits New York in the next days, we would ask: Why the terrible event of 9/11 could happen at the World Trade Center that was consecrated by the so called “Circle of Peace,” the Kalachakra Sand Mandala, the same mandalas that were unable to prevent the destruction of 7500 monasteries of Tibet? In this context a sentence of the Tantra expert and Indian scholar Shashi Bhusan Dasgupta may be remarkable: "The word Kala means time, death and destruction. Kala-Chakra is the Wheel of Destruction."
---
Really?
There is good reason for this because the Kalachakra Tantra also advocates killing Christians, etc. The idea in it is for the Buddhists to go to war with all other religions. But the Dalai Lama is teaching that it really doesn't mean this, it is about peace.
It is true that Hitler had the potential to be a good person. All people have that potential. I was in the library in Tolman Hall in Berkeley, checking out books, and I noticed a leaflet posted to the wall behind the librarian. I stood and read it and was thinking, Wow! This person really is a humanitarian. When I finished reading it it was signed Hitler. I was shocked. What happened to him? What caused him to view Jews as evil and kill?
People have pointed out that Hitler in no way resembled the blond "Aryan" types he held up as an ideal. Someone should do a DNA study on him and find out what his ancestry was.
People have pointed out that Hitler in no way resembled the blond "Aryan" types he held up as an ideal. Someone should do a DNA study on him and find out what his ancestry was.
Guys love guru yoga/higher yoga tantra. I think there are a few Tibetan and Western women who have done the practices (I'm not talking about the extreme practices, like what Thao's book describes.)
I'm not against tantra. I'm against abuse. Also, I'm leaning towards thinking that it shouldn't be called "Buddhism", too. idk. I'll leave it at that.
by not calling it Buddhism, it may be a wake up call to clear things up (or reform, if abuse is proved... specially institutionalized authoritarian abuse).
This could get interesting. I wonder what would happen if a crowd of Westerners (or a crowd in each of several Western countries) started protesting...what exactly? Abuse in TB? Or the inclusion of Vajrayana in Buddhism? What are we protesting? Anyway, I wonder how the TB leadership back in India would react. For that matter, I wonder how Tibetans in the West would react. Could get weird. I like Vincenzi's idea of an online petition on behalf of boy novices. That way, at least no one could use us for target practice if they're upset by the initiative.
I think I could only protest if I agreed with what was protested. So if a Christian was protesting other religions at the same time that they were protesting animal cruelty it would be hard for me to join with them. Not an anology! Just a logical example.
wor·ship (wûrshp) n. 1. a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object. b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed. 2. Ardent devotion; adoration. 3. often Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship. v. wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships v.tr. 1. To honor and love as a deity. 2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1. v.intr. 1. To participate in religious rites of worship. 2. To perform an act of worship.
I think n 1 could not be applied to 1ab or 3.
Probably 2 but then the same could be said of a pop star. Or mentor.
Protestants give Catholics a hard time for praying to Mary and saints. I say go for it. If SOMEONE don't want to call what *I* do buddhism. I could really care less. Is it going to stop what I call myself? LOL
Is it going to change the direction of one hair on my head if I call myself a buddhist or not?
Vincenzi, the lama doesn't demand anything. Its for the student benefit. The idea is that they are sincere and show respect.
So you can disagree with the lama and sometimes make them aware of something that they wouldn't be otherwise. Due to the respect and purity of the intentions that creates good karma and even imperfect situations turn out ok such as mistakes.
I am posting my email from Stephen Batchelor here again because this question has come up here:
Dear (name removed),
I suppose it is possible that your teacher might have learned about sexual practices of the Kalachakra from the Dalai Lama - I also received some instructions from one of his tutors on these matters, but it was never expected that I would put them into practice - just necessary as part of receiving the complete transmission of that lineage. I hope all goes well for you in your post Tibetan Buddhist future,
With warm wishes, Stephen"
Stephen Batchelor is no longer with the Dalai Lama and is married to what looks like a wonder woman who has written many Zen books.
This should at least answer the question as to whether the Dalai Lama still teaches this aspect of the tantra.
I would protest calling it Buddha's teachings. I would protest the abuse and use of young children.
I was watching the news last night, and the topic of child rape and slavery came up in India, and the government said that they wouldn't or couldn't do anything about it because it was happening due to poverty. What? So whatever the Dalai Lama is doing, if he using children, then it is okay by India's standards. Now of course, the news could have just thrown in the rape issues along with child labor. http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generations-pay-off-debts-through-slavery/
This link and news report did not go into the rape issue that i can see.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I suppose it is possible that your teacher might have learned about sexual practices of the Kalachakra from the Dalai Lama - I also received some instructions from one of his tutors on these matters, but it was never expected that I would put them into practice - just necessary as part of receiving the complete transmission of that lineage. I hope all goes well for you in your post Tibetan Buddhist future,
This should at least answer the question as to whether the Dalai Lama still teaches this aspect of the tantra.
"but it was never expected that I would put them into practice - just necessary as part of receiving the complete transmission of that lineage."
This part seems to say that the controversial aspect is part of the teaching but not that its actually practiced. To my mind this argues against the literal interpretation and isn't a conclusive statement, so I guess its in the eye of the beholder. I guess it does show that this aspect is still taught it just doesn't show that the literal approach is practiced.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I would protest calling it Buddha's teachings. I would protest the abuse and use of young children.
I was watching the news last night, and the topic of child rape and slavery came up in India, and the government said that they wouldn't or couldn't do anything about it because it was happening due to poverty. What? So whatever the Dalai Lama is doing, if he using children, then it is okay by India's standards. Now of course, the news could have just thrown in the rape issues along with child labor. http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generations-pay-off-debts-through-slavery/
This link and news report did not go into the rape issue that i can see.
I don't understand what this has to do with anything, the report is about modern day slavery in India. You're saying that because it happens in India then HHDL has no compunction about abusing children because he lives there?
"So whatever the Dalai Lama is doing, if he using children, then it is okay by India's standards.
Thats the question, if he is using children. There seems to be some evidence that children were offered in old Tibet but nothing that says they've done it since joining the modern world.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I guess to me it comes down to how you interpret these claims. There is one teaching that has a strange and controversial aspect to it and is often defended by saying that it has a symbolic meaning, while there are piles of teachings that have a normal Buddhist message.
Is TB a piece of shit painted in gold or is it a piece of gold with a smear of shit on it?
I think the Dalai Lama teaches about those controversial practices as part of lineage teachings, but he doesn't perform them. Whether any of the other schools of TB still performs them, or any individual lama in any of the schools, is something we don't know.
I think Thao was saying that because India feels it can't control child slavery, the government isn't likely to investigate or take action against any abuses within Tibetan communities or monasteries.
...I don't know, it is just that the whole concept of guru/lama seems so egotistical.
In "A Social History of Indian Tantric Buddhism", the author says that concepts of power, individual charisma and authority, use of spells and ritual sex were very attractive to monks, and came from the influence of Indian medieval society. So it was egotistical from the start. But I think it's an individual choice nowadays, whether to play power games and all that. In the monastic system and within sects in general, I think there's always a certain amount of jockeying for power (witness the current Karmapa controversy). Which, granted, isn't very Buddhistic. Maybe this is why the Buddha was against institutionalized monasticism--did I understand correctly that there's something about that in the Pali sutras?
But I think Jeffrey's also right, that on a basic level (if not misconstrued by student or teacher), the student-teacher relationship is about simple respect. The guru devotion, viewing the guru as a Buddha, is supposed to apply only to the most advanced stage of study and practice.
Comments
Show me one statement leading anyone to believe that a Tibetan buddhist feels they have authority over zen or theravada? One? You have made several claiming you know whats best for TB. Therefore you are an authority in your mind.
I didn't said I'm an authority over anything. In the case of psychiatry I just concluded that it is baseless and worthless. In the case of TB, I just said that THEY are acting in an authoritarian way.
stop putting words in my mouth.
how so? by pointing out that everyone, specially those "arguing" from an authoritarian POV, should be called out if they made something false?
this is illegal, inmoral, unethical behaviour we are talking about. what? you don't want the "holy gurus" to be called on that and investigated?
none have
You are asking to have authority over them. Because you are telling them what to do.
stop putting words in my mouth."
Ok. Stop putting words in guru's mouth.
authority over students, from the "holy gurus"... not over schools.
I'm saying only that illegal, inmoral, unethical behaviour should be called upon?
don't divert the point.
"Ok. Stop putting words in guru's mouth."
what words? as anarchists are against governments, I'm against authoritarian religious figures... both lead to corruption and abuse.
http://arts.state.wi.us/static/folkdir/chojor1.htm
"Today, Ven. Ngawang is best known for making colored sand mandalas. He has constructed sand mandalas in places all around the world. In 1994, he worked with other monks to make a mandala in the World Trade Center in New York City."
Here is what you said "authority figures have no say on practitioners of other schools, and may and should be called upon if in fault (see other points)."
http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-547-hell-o-dalai/
Please, we're really supposed to believe that HHDL is secretly planning a hostile takeover of the world through Buddhist ritual? I guess the teachings of Shambala in the Kalachakra could be perverted for that use, but does anyone actually think that the Tibetans would secretly hope for the takeover of the world while publicly calling for a peaceful resolution to the situation in their country. I have to seriously question this guys interpretation of the Kalachakra.
now I see the understanding:
"authority figures have no say on practitioners of other schools" this was just stating a fact, not implying that TB "holy gurus" think they have a say on other schools.
because of that fact, this follows:
"and may and should be called upon if in fault (see other points)."
the problem with the kalachakra is that it easily leads to confrontation with other religions (basing this on comments on some wesbites and the wiki article) and to sexual abuse (basing this on comments on some wesbites).
Wasn't there an attempted bombing of the World Trade Center in the early 1990's?
The SpitFire doc. says that "much of this program is based on the Dalai Lama's participation in the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization, headed by .....von Hapsburg". This is complete crap. I'm familiar with UNPO, I attended one of their General Assemblies. It is not now, nor has it ever been, headed by any von Hapsburg. Tibet's participation there has nothing to do with some Shambala war or supremacy scenario. The organization was formed in order to provide a platform for ethnic minorities and indigenous peoples with no representation at the UN. It's an "alternative UN" for out-groups. So I hereby declare the author of that article a crank.
@Jeffrey I think you misunderstood Vincenzi. I took his comment about authority figures not having any say over other schools to mean that there's no accountability in TB for lamas, teachers, or monks who break their vows or who behave outside the norms for spiritual teachers. Or something along those lines.
Are we off topic yet? Kalachakra conspiracy theories aren't in the OP, are they? Jeffrey, do you want to start a thread about the Kalachakra? Is anyone even qualified to comment, really? Other than on what's already been pointed out, the tantric part?
The course I am taking I gravitate towards. Its really great I think. Are you aware that there are Lam Rim teachings? In Tibetan Buddhism? I think that some of the damage done by corrupt gurus is that it poisons others against the sincere students. I am a practitioner of the Lam Rim path and I have found the approach of Pema Chodron, Trungpa Rinpoche, and my teacher to contain wisdom. It sounds so.
Also, here's a link to the part of the Kalachakra that talks about Shambala.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/e-books/published_books/kalachakra_initiation/pt1/kalachakra_initiation_02.html#n7d25aae6f9d7d3426
Anyone reading this should actually go to the website and read the entire comments by all.
1. Being a Marxist does not make one a Nazi or a China sympathizer either. Just because some call Obama a Nazi, doesn't make him a Nazi.
2. People do their best to put the Timondis down, but when you get the books, well, you can see for yourself if what they have said is true. After all they were students of the Dalai Lama's and published his books, and that is when they parted ways because they learned too much.
The Chopel book is a sex guide, but he got his ideas from the Tantras, which is obvious since young children are being used just as they are in the Kalachakra Tantra. And while a lama is supposed to have a consort equal in footing to him, it doesn't always work that way, not from what I have seen. In my tantra book a woman over 21 is not to be used for a real consort. do you think 21 year olds are at the same level as a lama? (This is a question to everyone.)
One person wrote: "You are just blindfolded. Marxism in the eye of an American is different from the view of a continental European. Look ar Rush Limbaugh. For him even democrats are communists. Enough said.
The Trimondi's have already stated a dedication to "radical consciousness" and their writings draw upon Marxist ideas about psychology and culture to work.
I think you don't know anything about Marxism, Satsu. I've actually written stuff from that perspective, particularly as it involves the division of labor creating a diminution of the senses and waning sense of the world's gestalt, I know what Marxism is, what Marxist critical theory is and I know how to spot people that sit in different Marxist camps. You, on the other hand, seem to know nothing about the topic whatever.
I imagine that if you asked the Trimondi's, they'd have the same criticism of China's current policies as Parenti. "
the above link takes you to a review of the book on a nazi website. the unholy allegiance is that hitler used buddhist and hindu texts. he had even read about the U.S. removal of Indians and applied it to the removal of Jews. this too is an unholy alliance.
"Many of the themes raised in the Kalachakra Tantra (a cyclical view of the world, global domination, the use of super weapons, magic and ritual in sexual practices etc) are key themes in religious fascism."
It is true that Hitler had the potential to be a good person. All people have that potential. I was in the library in Tolman Hall in Berkeley, checking out books, and I noticed a leaflet posted to the wall behind the librarian. I stood and read it and was thinking, Wow! This person really is a humanitarian. When I finished reading it it was signed Hitler. I was shocked. What happened to him? What caused him to view Jews as evil and kill?
Speculation. You have yet to produce a single quotation from said kalachakra.
"You, on the other hand, seem to know nothing about the topic whatever."
Ad hominem. You should dispute his incorrect knowledge rather than simply say he doesn't know anything
I'm not against tantra. I'm against abuse. Also, I'm leaning towards thinking that it shouldn't be called "Buddhism", too. idk. I'll leave it at that.
by not calling it Buddhism, it may be a wake up call to clear things up (or reform, if abuse is proved... specially institutionalized authoritarian abuse).
I will like to add: guru worship as a fundamentally flawed, and samsaric approach, which leads to abuse.
...and, the probably milder pan-buddhist_school approach of: considering ahimsa as one of the fundamental aspects of Buddhism, within all schools
n.
1.
a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
3. often Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.
v. wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships
v.tr.
1. To honor and love as a deity.
2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1.
v.intr.
1. To participate in religious rites of worship.
2. To perform an act of worship.
I think n 1 could not be applied to 1ab or 3.
Probably 2 but then the same could be said of a pop star. Or mentor.
Not v 1
2 same as n2
v intr not 1 or 2
Is it going to change the direction of one hair on my head if I call myself a buddhist or not?
...I don't know, it is just that the whole concept of guru/lama seems so egotistical.
So you can disagree with the lama and sometimes make them aware of something that they wouldn't be otherwise. Due to the respect and purity of the intentions that creates good karma and even imperfect situations turn out ok such as mistakes.
Dear (name removed),
I suppose it is possible that your teacher might have learned about sexual practices of the Kalachakra from the Dalai Lama - I also received some instructions from one of his tutors on these matters, but it was never expected that I would put them into practice - just necessary as part of receiving the complete transmission of that lineage. I hope all goes well for you in your post Tibetan Buddhist future,
With warm wishes, Stephen"
Stephen Batchelor is no longer with the Dalai Lama and is married to what looks like a wonder woman who has written many Zen books.
This should at least answer the question as to whether the Dalai Lama still teaches this aspect of the tantra.
I was watching the news last night, and the topic of child rape and slavery came up in India, and the government said that they wouldn't or couldn't do anything about it because it was happening due to poverty. What? So whatever the Dalai Lama is doing, if he using children, then it is okay by India's standards. Now of course, the news could have just thrown in the rape issues along with child labor. http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generations-pay-off-debts-through-slavery/
This link and news report did not go into the rape issue that i can see.
This part seems to say that the controversial aspect is part of the teaching but not that its actually practiced. To my mind this argues against the literal interpretation and isn't a conclusive statement, so I guess its in the eye of the beholder. I guess it does show that this aspect is still taught it just doesn't show that the literal approach is practiced.
"So whatever the Dalai Lama is doing, if he using children, then it is okay by India's standards.
Thats the question, if he is using children. There seems to be some evidence that children were offered in old Tibet but nothing that says they've done it since joining the modern world.
Is TB a piece of shit painted in gold or is it a piece of gold with a smear of shit on it?
I think Thao was saying that because India feels it can't control child slavery, the government isn't likely to investigate or take action against any abuses within Tibetan communities or monasteries. In "A Social History of Indian Tantric Buddhism", the author says that concepts of power, individual charisma and authority, use of spells and ritual sex were very attractive to monks, and came from the influence of Indian medieval society. So it was egotistical from the start. But I think it's an individual choice nowadays, whether to play power games and all that. In the monastic system and within sects in general, I think there's always a certain amount of jockeying for power (witness the current Karmapa controversy). Which, granted, isn't very Buddhistic. Maybe this is why the Buddha was against institutionalized monasticism--did I understand correctly that there's something about that in the Pali sutras?
But I think Jeffrey's also right, that on a basic level (if not misconstrued by student or teacher), the student-teacher relationship is about simple respect. The guru devotion, viewing the guru as a Buddha, is supposed to apply only to the most advanced stage of study and practice.
"The guru devotion, viewing the guru as a Buddha, is supposed to apply only to the most advanced stage of study and practice."
should be:
"The guru devotion, viewing the guru as a Buddha, applies only to the most basic and samsaric stage of study and practice."