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Never to fight back? Never to fight for your life or the life of others??
StoicBuddhistAlex
Veteran
Did anybody here knows about the famouse video:
3 guys 1 hammer?
If you dont, and if you want search their history in google and or watch the video of how they kill and torture people.
Would you dont fight back this people in the sake of karma?
Most of the time the best answer is non violence but... Hey comon is real life someday can come that violence is the fokin answer!!
And i give a f... when that day comes about karma.
3 guys 1 hammer?
If you dont, and if you want search their history in google and or watch the video of how they kill and torture people.
Would you dont fight back this people in the sake of karma?
Most of the time the best answer is non violence but... Hey comon is real life someday can come that violence is the fokin answer!!
And i give a f... when that day comes about karma.
0
Comments
i don't think the buddhist thing to do would to be to roll over and die. people on the level of psychosis such as dnepropetrovsk maniacs will not stop at one person. they were suspected in many murders other than just the one shown. if i put myself in that situation, i don't think i could give in out of the sake of karma, i would fight so that i could hopefully keep them from continuing this behavior.
"If a monk was physically attacked, the Buddha allowed him to strike back in self-defense, but never with the intention to kill."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/gettingmessage.html
It would be possible to defend yourself physically, not arouse ill will internally and arouse compassion. To allow yourself to be assaulted, tortured, murdered etc would not be in line with the 8fold path or the middle way.
Thankfully, I would say that the likelihood of any of us being personally exposed to such violence is extremely slim.
However, exposure to such images is all too common nowadays, whether through media or fiction.
If this kind of violence creates feelings of hostility and animosity - and you would fight with that emotional level - then really - you are no better than them....
Cultivate the essential qualities of interconnectedness and forgiveness.
That's where it's at.
I did see the video the OP mentioned, and wish I hadn't.... very disturbing. I just can't comprehend how a person can allow themselves to be such a sick brutal monster. I know that occasionally a person can have a mental disorder that they do not comprehend the impact of their actions, but to have a collection of people? I don't understand this. Sure we have had political and religeous powers gas and shoot people, but I don't ever recall any group taking delight in killing in such a slow, torturous evil way. I have been mentally scared.
The rate of violence in schizophrenics is lower than non in all areas aside from self-violence.
Yet, if someone comes at you with a hammer, you are going to react. You're naturally going to want to protect yourself. However, its what informs your reaction - your intentions - that really matters. Is it your intent to kill based on hatred or animosity, like the intention of those kids? What would separate yourself from them? Or is it to protect yourself, and to prevent further violence against others?
One a side note, I have heard that when Bodhidharma brought the Ch'an (Zen) to Shaolin, he saw that the monks were so weak and malnourished that they couldn't complete the demanding meditation routines. So, along with the mind-training of Zen, he began teaching the monks exercises to help strengthen them physically. Eventually, these exercises evolved into the martial arts training known as kung fu.
Bandits frequently attacked the Shaolin temple in search of treasures, and due to political turmoil the temple was also burned to the ground on several occasions. These events also helped the evolution of kung fu into a defensive martial arts which the monks used to protect their temple.
To help in your self appointed argument though, I'll share with you that my Brother-In-Law was visiting when he first developed schizophrenia... took us awhile to figure out was going on with him, but I do remember him getting nervous when we came home and I mentioned that we forgot to lock the back door (we were aware of his condition at this point). I then put a pizza in the oven. He was sure that someone came in the back door and poisoned the pizza, but we insisted that it was not poisoned and we were going to eat it anyways... he then asked me, if he was to eat the whole pizza by himself, could I find something else for his sister to eat? I thought it was pretty touching that he was willing to die to save his sister.
They enjoyed killing life in such a torturous and natural way.
They where not even poor nor sick to have any reason. They where just maniacs...
This is true life and its hell. You dont know if the next morning a loved one or yourself will be in the hands of this "things".
"Phagguna, if anyone were to give you a blow with the hand, or hit you with a clod of earth, or with a stick, or with a sword, even then you should abandon those urges and thoughts which are worldly. There, Phagguna, you should train yourself thus: 'Neither shall my mind be affected by this, nor shall I give vent to evil words; but I shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and I shall not give in to hatred.' This is how, Phagguna, you should train yourself.
"Monks, even if bandits were to savagely sever you, limb by limb, with a double-handled saw, even then, whoever of you harbors ill will at heart would not be upholding my Teaching. Monks, even in such a situation you should train yourselves thus: 'Neither shall our minds be affected by this, nor for this matter shall we give vent to evil words, but we shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and we shall not give in to hatred. On the contrary, we shall live projecting thoughts of universal love to those very persons, making them as well as the whole world the object of our thoughts of universal love — thoughts that have grown great, exalted and measureless. We shall dwell radiating these thoughts which are void of hostility and ill will.' It is in this way, monks, that you should train yourselves.
whatever
Ii is extremely difficult to not feel anger and hatred if one is defending oneself vigorously. Fear is a condition for hatred. The best option is to escape if possible.
Why you would not stop them from making such evil acts????? Where is the compassion and love not to save others out of the sake of fear of karma??
Who cares to be enightened if you had a choice to stop those bastards whould you do it?
Its not a form of selfishness not to intervene becouse of "bad karma"
Do you guys even read or saw what this people do the poor man??????
Do you guys even put yourself or a loved in the place of the victims????
In what world can people have compassion for those monsters and where is the compassion for the victimss????
Humanity is indeed evil starting with me.
IF such a thing happened, you will do whatever causes and conditions lead you to do.
So how about cultivating compassion now, and stop worrying about these things which will never happen to you.
"Monks, even if bandits were to savagely sever you, limb by limb, with a double-handled saw, even then, whoever of you harbors ill will at heart would not be upholding my Teaching. Monks, even in such a situation you should train yourselves thus: 'Neither shall our minds be affected by this, nor for this matter shall we give vent to evil words, but we shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and we shall not give in to hatred. On the contrary, we shall live projecting thoughts of universal love to those very persons, making them as well as the whole world the object of our thoughts of universal love — thoughts that have grown great, exalted and measureless. We shall dwell radiating these thoughts which are void of hostility and ill will.' It is in this way, monks, that you should train yourselves.
"Monks, if you should keep this instruction on the Parable of the Saw constantly in mind, do you see any mode of speech, subtle or gross, that you could not endure?"
"No, Lord."
"Therefore, monks, you should keep this instruction on the Parable of the Saw constantly in mind. That will conduce to your well-being and happiness for long indeed."
Kakacupama Sutta: The Parable of the Saw
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.021x.budd.html
*smile*
Regards,,,
B
In a wolrd in wich people care and have the selfish desire to become enlightened ingnoring the pain of victims and showing more compassion to this monsters.
One of the human qualities when this things happend is to despise the actions and the people who made them.
Its against life and humanity to show compassion to this kind of monsters and actions.
I dont know in wich world you live in to say this things cannont happen to anybody.
This things happend all around wolrd. They are now even in the internet.
Whats worth a religon/philosophy what ever you wana call it, if its not tested in real life hard situations.
And this things hapened to people just like you and me. Its not selfish to give a F... about what happened to the victims???
How can you love the world if you dont consider your life anyworth saving?
>Its against life and humanity to show compassion to this kind of monsters and actions.
That is called "wrong view".
There is a good and not to long essay to understand it:
Metta means good-will
http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/CrossIndexed/Uncollected/MiscEssays/metta_means_goodwill.pdf
*smile*
It's not the religion that is being tested.
It's you.
And so far, you're not getting it.... It's not selfish to give a F... about what happened to the victims.
It IS selfish to not give a F...about the perpetrators.
GET THIS:
BOTH - yes, both - are deserving of your unconditional Love, Compassion and kindness.
That's what you're not getting.
the reason horrible acts occur is because of the presence of greed, hatred & ignorance in the mind. so the causal solution would be to assist others in removing those qualities from the mind, and the only way one can do that is by achieving this for oneself and being able to clearly teach others an effective, experience based way to do this for themselves.
the search for enlightenment is hardly selfish, it is a very very compassionate and beautiful thing to do.
That being said, I aspire to that level of greatness, but as I type this, I don't think I would pass that test.
The brutal reality of life is that some human beings are so deeply submerged in their own pain, despair and psychosis that they cannot be helped. They are out of control of themselves, or they are completely oblivious and insensitive to outside influence, because the voice of their pain screams too loudly into their ears. Sometimes these people express their suffering through violence. In such cases, the greatest act of compassion is to take their life away - or otherwise neutralize them - so that they do not destroy people around them with their pain and insanity. At this point, it's just a question of skillful means - how many people are you protecting by committing the 'sin' of murdering another human? I'm totally ok with committing this sin. I'd do it a 1000 times if it protected 1000 people.
I don't mean to suggest, of course, that killing is an optimal solution to all social problems. The real challenge is to find a way to prevent people from becoming such damaged, lost souls to begin with. But we haven't done that, so we're faced with the secondary task of protecting individuals from the casualties of society.
Never indeed is hatred stilled by hatred; it will only be stilled by non-hatred — this is an eternal law.
— Dhp., vv. 4-5
Do not speak harshly to anyone. Those who are harshly spoken to might retaliate against you. Angry words hurt other's feelings, even blows may overtake you in return.
— Dhp., v. 133
Forbearance is the highest observance. Patience is the highest virtue. So the Buddhas say.
— Dhp., v. 184
Let a man remove his anger. Let him root out his pride. Let him overcome all fetters of passions. No sufferings overtake him who neither clings to mind-and-body nor claims anything of the world.
— Dhp., v. 221
Conquer anger by non-anger. Conquer evil by good. Conquer miserliness by liberality. Conquer a liar by truthfulness.
— Dhp., v. 223
Guard your mind against an outburst of wrong feelings. Keep your mind controlled. Renouncing evil thoughts, develop purity of mind.
— Dhp., v. 233
:wave:
Call Me by My True Names
Do not say that I'll depart tomorrow
because even today I still arrive.
Look deeply: I arrive in every second
to be a bud on a spring branch,
to be a tiny bird, with wings still fragile,
learning to sing in my new nest,
to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,
to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.
I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,
in order to fear and to hope.
The rhythm of my heart is the birth and
death of all that are alive.
I am the mayfly metamorphosing on the surface of the river,
and I am the bird which, when spring comes, arrives in time
to eat the mayfly.
I am the frog swimming happily in the clear pond,
and I am also the grass-snake who, approaching in silence,
feeds itself on the frog.
I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,
my legs as thin as bamboo sticks,
and I am the arms merchant, selling deadly weapons to
Uganda.
I am the twelve-year-old girl, refugee on a small boat,
who throws herself into the ocean after being raped by a sea
pirate,
and I am the pirate, my heart not yet capable of seeing and
loving.
I am a member of the politburo, with plenty of power in my
hands,
and I am the man who has to pay his "debt of blood" to, my
people,
dying slowly in a forced labor camp.
My joy is like spring, so warm it makes flowers bloom in all
walks of life.
My pain if like a river of tears, so full it fills the four oceans.
Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and laughs at once,
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.
Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart can be left open,
the door of compassion.
Thich Nhat Hanh
But while every criminal who carries out an unlawful act, should certainly be punished according to the law, this does not mean we should measure, restrain or withhold our compassion for them as a Human being who is clearly suffering.
They may know this, or not.
They may admit to this or not.
They may not care about this, one way or the other.
The important factor is that we recognise it, and understand it, and are Compassionate.
'Metta to all beings' shows no discrimination, for any reason whatsoever.
Our ways of judgement have less possibilities to judge intention rightly. If we could judge right and wrong intention, we would not have enough paper to write only the allegation down. What do you like to judge?
What about teaching and explaining? I know we have less time, but thought of we would have...what do you think?
Not everyone is receptive to "teaching and explaining" once they've reached a certain level.
Maybe the idea in Buddhism is to change karma (action) and not that much its results.
To tell somebody I beat you, because you wouldn't understand if I teach you... I am not sure if that is a worthy excuse. For sure there are times we are not really at peace for our self. But should that be a worthy excuse? :wave:
The fuller or prisons, the worse our society and understanding of Dharma. The more laws the more silly the people.
That's business as usual, don't we like to make change when understanding that cause comes before the effect. :wave: