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Short Talk On Anger
What ways do you guys think anger can be used to help others?
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we can not save the world. And Anger in most cases can be harmful. But in some ways you can use that energy to help others
Do not focus Anger and energise it to the bad.....
I don't think you can control anger, that's what makes it anger, you can't harness it because it's an emotive response that doesn't mix with logic or reasoning.
You can have a sense of injustice or disgust at a situation and those feelings can be used as motivation for change, but anger is uncontrolled, it's a rise in adrenaline at it's core which means you're response to getting angry will involved lashing out without thought. If you see a homeless man passed by it will be your sense of injustice that causes you to give him food, it is your anger that causes you to shout at and confront those passing by.
In brief, The Buddha gave numerous examples of things we should throw away such as wrong view.
In terms of anger I think it depends on your actions...how you handle it and what you do with it.
Personally Ive never shouted at a passer-by ignoring a homeless man. And rather or not the anger stems from injustice or not is irrelevant. Help...give..have compassion. Thats the important thing.
From my own view (taking my cue from Seneca's stoic philosophy as well as Buddhism), I think anger can only be harmful. In Buddhism, anger is one of the three poisons, and for good reason. Anger comes from clouded judgement, and it only creates a vicious cycle where judgement is clouded even further.
From another philosophical viewpoint (which echoes Buddhism in some respects), Seneca addresses this in his lengthy essay, "On Anger" in a very nuanced way (Seneca had some amazing psychological insights). He uses Aristotle as philosophical foil, where Aristotle states that anger used "in moderation" can be useful in certain contexts. It may not be a Buddhist text, but I think it is worthwhile reading for everyone!
The problem with anger is that anything done in anger is bound to be done recklessly and cause more harm than good. If there is anything that is the antithesis of mindfulness, it is anger. This does not rule out doing something with a sure handed firm determination, but this is not the same thing as anger.
In my own experience, I would describe the arising of anger like this: (1) We *want* something to be a certain way. (2) Things go in a way very different from our expectations. (3) We cling to the expectation and the gap between "Is" and the "Ought" to which we cling creates a rupture between ourselves and the reality in which we participate. (4) In anger, we think, say, and do things that only exacerbate that rupture. So anger becomes a self-perpetuating misery machine for all parties concerned. It can easily escalate into a situation that ends up spiralling out of control.
The quicker the response time (in mindfulness) of not letting anger rear its ugly head, the easier it is for anger not to cloud your vision. Of course, that takes a lot of practice (I've improved significantly, though I still have plenty room for improvement!!-- but I try to make more mental notes to myself observing myself which is always a step forward). A lot of our anger comes from bad habits developed very early on and they are often rooted in the other two poisons, ignorance and attachment ("expectation" is another way of saying "attachment" also). Usually being angry indicates one is suffering in some deeper way (no one chooses to be angry just for the fun of it!).
Seneca says no one *chooses* to be angry, but rather one unwittingly allows oneself to be a "slave" to anger--one is overwhelmed with anger, and they are no longer in control of themselves (but does not mean that he/she is no longer responsible for their actions!). To allow oneself to be stronger than their anger is a sign of true inner strength. Being angry is to throw a temper tantrum at worst, and at best it is to accomplish something that could be done more effectively *without* anger.
"[T]he mind is not sequestered, keeping a watch for the passions as things external and apart, so that it can keep them from going farther than they ought. Rather, the mind itself turns into the passion: that is why it cannot summon back its useful, healthy vigor one it has been betrayed and weakened. Reason and passion, as I said, don’t have separate and distinct dwelling places but are the mind’s transformation to a better and worse condition."
"Let nothing be lawful to you while you are angry. Do you ask why? Because then you wish everything to be lawful."
"Reason grants both parties time for a hearing and then seeks an adjournment for its own sake, so that it has time to search out the truth. Anger is in a hurry. Reason wants its judgement to be fair; anger wants its judgement to appear fair. Reason keeps its eye solely on the matter under consideration; anger is moved by empty and irrelevant imaginings. Too nonchalant an expression, too loud a voice, too free a way of speaking, too refined a style of dress, advocacy that’s too insistent, popular support—all these rub anger the wrong way. It often condemns the defendant out of pique at his counsel; even if the truth is shoved in its face, it fancies and upholds error. It doesn’t want to be refuted: when it has made a bad beginning, it takes stubbornness to be more honourable than second thoughts."
"No one makes himself wait; yet the best cure for anger is waiting, to allow the first ardour to abate and to let the darkness that clouds the reason either subside or be less dense. Of the offences which were driving you headlong, some an hour will abate, to say nothing of a day, some will vanish altogether; thought the postponement sought shall accomplish nothing else, yet it will be evident that judgement now rules instead of anger. If ever you want to find out what a thing really is, entrust it to time; you can see nothing clearly in the midst of the billows."
"“Good men become angry when their friends and family are wronged.” When you plead your case this way Theophrastus, you try to discredit more robust teachings, offering claptrap to the spectators while ignoring the judge: because each and every one of them becomes angry when that sort of misfortune befalls his family and friends, you suppose that people will reckon that what they do ought to be done, since practically everyone reckons righteous the feeling he recognizes in himself. But they do the same thing if their hot bath is not properly prepared, if a glass gets broken, if their shoe is spattered with mud. It’s not a sense of devotion that stirs that kind of anger, it’s weakness—the sort proper to children, who weep just as much whether they’ve lost their parents or some hazelnuts."
"Now, what is more unworthy than having another man’s wickedness determine a wise man’s passion? …And yet if the wise man should always be angry at shameful behaviour and be riled and gloomy because of criminal behaviour, he must be the most troubled man in the world: he’ll pass his entire life in anger and grief."
"How much better it is to heal than to avenge an injury! Vengeance consumes much time, and it exposes the doer to many injuries while he smarts from one; our anger always lasts longer than the hurt. How much better it is to take the opposite course and not to match fault with fault."
"Anger in itself has nothing of the strong or the heroic, but shallow minds are affected by it."
The only way I think anger could ever "help" someone is by teaching them what NOT to do and how NOT to react to situations. Although, there are some individuals who claim that high ranking teachers/gurus getting angry at someone helps to dispel their bad karma. I guess that would also include the story of Jesus and the 'Cleansing of the Temple.'
Also, anger is not the driving force behind giving a homeless person food. That's like saying I became angry at people who eat meat, so I became a vegan. No, I became vegan because I have compassion for the animals, just as someone who has compassion for a homeless person would give them food. My anger thinking that these animals are being mistreated did not do anything but cause me to think of angry things. Nothing productive happened by sitting there stewing over how much I disagreed with how factory farming employees tortured innocent sentient beings. It wasn't until I saw the situation through the eyes of compassion that I decided to take positive action by becoming a vegan.
So, no, anger does not lead to positive actions. Anger causes one to dwell on the negative instead of searching for positive solutions. It's when we let our anger subside and stop making it about me/myself/and I, that we start to head towards compassion and begin to start to think about how to care for others instead.
Also, on that note, even though I've been advised not to do this, I feel as if I have to at this point, since it's quite impossible not to eventually end up interacting with you on this forum in some capacity:
@Kashi, yes, I've received and read your PM's. All 5 of them (including the one you just sent me about 10 minutes ago), as well as the numerous @-mentions and threads started by you. I hope you will understand that I am not angry at you, I am not rejecting your apology, nor am I holding a grudge against you. I hope you can move on from this. It really wasn't a big deal. I've moved on from this like 24 hours ago-- I hope you can, too. I have no problem reading and responding to your posts, and I hope you will choose to do the same and keep the feeling here light and friendly. Thanks.
I frequent political blogs less frequently than I did before, and I *try* not to get so worked up about injustices in the world. You can stand up for what is right without being attached to your expectations. Or, to put it differently, being compassionate is more important than my expectations of the outcome from that compassion.
well said, I agree, thats all I wanted, now moving on
:thumbsup:
A: an emotionless robot
B: living in a delusional world where all things are bad except for some kind of bliss that is "only" wholesome if you practice buddhism?
No thanks.
Think of it this way, back to my example of becoming a vegan. What if I stayed in that angry state? What if I hadn't taken the next logical step, which was compassionate thinking and feeling? What if I stayed in my angry state, and continued to eat at McDonald's, but ranted and raved on PETA's forums, complaining as the day is long about all of the torture and abuse that goes on in the meat and dairy industries? If I stayed only in that anger-- (and a lot of people do this in life regarding many situations, so it isn't a far-fetched example!)-- how is that helping anyone out? It isn't. It is only adding to the negativity of the very thing I am upset about. It is anger feeding on anger, with zero chance for growth, love, or for that matter, enlightenment.
And let's say I stayed angry, but I did become vegan and still ranted and raved on the PETA forums. Is anyone really going to want to listen to me? Is anyone really going to want to join in on my crusade to show this 'compassion' I'm supposedly spreading to others? Don't you think I'm going to give all vegans a bad name by the way I am acting? Isn't that going to be totally counterproductive to the very reason why I am angry in the first place? How can I really be compassionate as I say I am if anger is the impetus for this so-called message of "love" that I am trying to spread? In that instance, it is not only anger, but also ego, that I am exhibiting. Compassion is merely a pipe dream here, and when compassion is missing from the equation, eventually everything falls apart unless we change our thinking and perceptions of the situation into something more positive.
In short, anger inhibits all attempts at anything positive or productive. And if it doesn't at first, it eventually will if we keep giving it power and feeding into the negativity of it.
Anger replaced with compassion, instead of angry compassion attempt, because the two fight each other is how I "think" of it--tried that a lot myself in past, found myself conflicted. As said before, Buddhism regards anger as a negative emotion, a poison that can eat away at one if not set aside or replaced with something better, so far as is understood here.
Compassion brings self-satusfaction and positive things and attitudes to the fore, to a non-attached to degree, some self-satisfaction is healthy. Lots, and attaching to it, has long-term negative consequences. Same thing with lots of conflict or lots of poison.
Is there a sutta or sutra that actually explains this in great detail??
There are things in the world that need doing, and they can be done more effectively (i.e. skillfully) *without* anger rather than *with* it. You don't need to be angry to know that compassion is needed in the world. Anger is something added on which can quickly become detrimental, and overcoming the original compassionate intent (in terms of poltical action, many political movements have devolved precisely in this way).
I think it is better to be vigilant in making a stand but being mindful of the purpose of making that stand (MLK is a great example of this). You can make a stand without being angry. In terms of its effect, it can be harmful for all parties concerned, and as far as oneself goes, it is energy being expended in an inefficient way.
In understand where you're coming from, but I'm just relating my own experience, learning from my successes and my mistakes. It bears out what Buddhism says, and why anger is one of the three poisons in Buddhism.
Sorry for the side track
I actually have a Funshine Bear sitting right next to me. Love that bear. I actually used to carry her and a little crocheted snake (called Mr. Snakey) around with me everywhere I went as a child. Loved that snake, too. He had a top hat, googley eyes, and all that jazz. As a matter of fact, I gotta upload him. I have a picture of him I took a few years ago. He's too wonderful not to behold. Now if I could only remember where I put him...:
I even had a Catholic priest bless him when I was 3 years old. He looked at the snake and then at me and was like, "Uhhh... is your name Damien or something?"
Okay, sorry, back to anger. Grrrr! :rarr:
Sometime earlier last year, I had intended to take a brief trip at night to pick up a few needed groceries, but before pulling out of the lot, I sensed something was wrong with my truck. I stepped out to investigate, and as I had suspected, I had a completely flat tire. I was surprised at my own response to discovering this—rather than get upset, I parked the truck and went back to my loft, knowing that there wasn’t much I could accomplish in the dark to fix the tire. I went to bed, knowing what needed to be done and thought little of it for the rest of the night.
The next day, I woke up ready to do what was necessary to fix my truck. Without going into the details, even what I had set out to do was not so simple. I couldn’t get the spare tire loose from underneath the truck and it turned out I didn’t have a jack (I rarely ever have need to use my truck and maybe go to the gas station four or five times a year without even filling up). Other problems cropped up as well. But in each case, I was unperturbed. I simply acknowledged the new situation and adapted myself to it without complaining. And believe me, this is not normally how I handle situations like this. I was aware of my disposition during all of this and was surprised—this was no feigned calm, but was a spontaneous response. Incidentally, I had been engaged in quite a lot of zazen, being quite involved with Buddhism during this time.
In the end, with all the walking around town and all the various things I had to purchase and eventually get my truck to a nearby mechanic to replace the tire, after all the time, money and energy spent, I finally had accomplished everything I had set out to do by the afternoon, and then bought the groceries I had meant to get the previous night.
After doing all this, I stopped to reflect again on my day and my surprisingly calm response to all the obstacles that came my way that day—and I began laughing to myself, and laughing at myself too. It dawned on me how everything that had happened was going to happen regardless: the flat tire, difficulty getting to the spare, having to walk to and fro for and air pump. jack and tire sealant, etc. etc. But my disposition was the only thing that was different. I could have cursed and wailed the whole time and probably had given myself a headache, allowing myself to become stressed out. But instead I calmly did precisely what each moment, as it arose, needed—nothing more, nothing less.
And so I laughed at myself knowing how foolish I could have been, but how much easier it was by simply being adaptable to each situation rather than being rigid and unyielding. Where I go wrong it this: What makes me complain about things going not according to my plans is not circumstances, but rather my own clinging to an abstract projection of the future as I say it should be, regardless of the reality. And rather than adapting, I moan (verbally or to myself) which changes nothing. It reminded my of old Zhuang Zi’s rigid, unmoving pine tree versus the pliable willow tree and how both fared in the wind.
That day, my happiness was not dependent upon circumstances, but on my own inner disposition. As odd as it sounds, that day, where I spent half of it fixing a flat, was actually a very good and memorable day.
...In other words, I wanted to have my flat fixed, but I was not attached to the event. I did what needed to be done without a narrative in my head saying 'This shouldn't be happening like this.' If I had been running about with that commentary in my head I would have an attachment to an idea of how I thought things ought to be. Attachment comes from getting too caught up in how you think OUGHT to be. And that comes from that narrative in the head which is separating you from the actual matter at hand-- you aren't present with the flat, but with an idea of a truck that has no flat. This is just mindlessly chasing an illusion. And we do this all the time, wandering in samsara rather than the simple reality before us. Mindfulness in this context then is the opposite of attachment. Or, attachment is what prevents us from being mindful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Attachment, being one of the other three poisons, is directly linked to anger. The stronger the attachment (and therefore, expectations), the greater likelihood of anger arising.
:rockon:
I just had a great response in terms of the topic and now I forget...Mr snakey threw me off
Im heading out for the day to get some much needed fresh air.
Peace
I have to go do stuff myself. I'm sure I'll return again later today! l8.
In this world
hostilities are never
appeased by hostility.
But by the absence of hostility
are they appeased.
This is an interminable truth.
Some do not understand
that we are perishing here.
Those who understand this
bring their quarrels to rest.
Dhammapada (ch. 1)
I mean if you think it's okay to be angry and that gets you to points of peace in your life then, hey-- to each his own. Personally? I think anger is useless when it comes to positive motivation. The only thing anger motivates me to do is stay angry, which leads to self-pity and depression.
And on that note, I still have other things to do, so it's time to practice some discipline and stay off this form for a bit right now! l8r
I just know what is harmful and what is not harmful from my own experience and reflecting on that.
However, whether or not anger can potentially be harnessed into something more useful, it creates a lot of issues of it's own -- enough issues that it would be better to start from some other emotion to begin with, IMO. @riverflow made a post that I can very much relate too -- about anger eventually leading to dissillusionment and a sense of futility. It's easy for anger to get out of control, and it's easy to hold onto anger long after it is appropriate. When experienced frequently, it is also utterly exhausting.
I used to consume a lot more news media and frequented various political forums too. Now I steer clear of much of that, because I don't like the negative emotions they stir up, and I am tired of being angry. It's not the person I want to be, it's not how I want to interact with the world, and it's something I struggle with a lot because it is very ingrained in me at this point to react in certain ways. It's not that my political viewpoints have really changed all that much over the years, it's just that I don't want approach things the way I have in the past. But that is easier said than done, and at some point I have to separate myself from what is setting me off -- at least until I have a better handle on myself. This really has been my biggest struggle since becoming Buddhist. It's better not to end up in that place to begin with than have to deal with the frustration and burn out that anger dumps on you later.
As far as anger acheiving goals, well, yeah, it has-- but the question then is just WHAT goals has anger actually succeeded at? The answer can be found in history, the local newspaper, or in your own neighbourhood. Its not a pretty picture.
Man cannot be fully just a "objective" thinker, intuitiveness and emotions get in the way. Psychology is a soft science still. Psychiatry is a baby science.
Some would say we are a set -- one mind altogether. I would have to say that except in well accomplished meditation the set is pretty much hidden.