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A Buddhist teacher admits ... BUDDHISM HAS FAILED!
Jundo
New
My name is Jundo Cohen. I am a Buddhist teacher, a Zen teacher, who says that it is time for us to admit that Buddhism has FAILED MISERABLY in its key mission. Over two thousand years of sutras and twirling beads, meditation and mantras have yet to realize all that we vowed to do.
Look around: How's that working out for the world?
But now, perhaps there is a chance. Zen and all Buddhism must not be frozen, limited only to means and methods available 50 or 500 years ago. Our way is not a museum of long ago.
Let us learn from our traditions and the past, act in the present, as we open to possibilities for tomorrow. This is the future of Buddhism and Zen.
Please allow me a few minutes to explain ...
3
Comments
I actually watched and listened to you @Jundo I have a few thoughts....
Buddhism is not a proselytising religion. And as I have experienced in my life, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Also the Buddha said himself not to take him at his word but to test his teachings for ourselves. That in itself highlights that Buddhism is NOT a salvation based path and let's face it, a huge chunk of society want the easy way out. Many people just don't want to do the work. We can't force them to.
And let's face it monotheism has been around a lot longer and they still can't figure it out. Monotheism started with Judaism 5875 years ago, followed a few thousand years later by Christianity and then Islam about 1600 years later. One only has to look at the current war to see how that's going.
I hear the frustration in your voice, I GET IT. I really do. Even HH The Dalai Lama has said if science proves something wrong about Buddhism, then Buddhism has to change. It sounds like you want Buddhism to start proselytising and I don't think that would work at all.
Maybe I've misunderstood you and if so I'm willing to be corrected.
By their fruits you shall know them…
Is it true to say that Buddhism has failed, because there are not many Buddha’s? I think it is inevitable that it would fail, because people are unique. I don’t think there is one set path that leads to enlightenment for everyone.
I find it hard to envisage the intersection of Buddhism and future technology. For me, Buddhism is about the first steps you take to find peace, let go of your accumulated conditioning, and start looking at the present moment instead of the past or the future. These things are timeless, and take you out of a technology bubble, back into the real world.
Looking forward to the episode 2 video.
Strange - I don't really think we have failed in our mission. I don't even know what sort of mission I/we are supposed to be on. I don't recall being asked to accept one.
And it sounds like Jundo is just trying to sell his book.
Nice one, Jundo.
Maybe your claim is intentionally sensational to grab attention? In my mind I was asking, what is the counterfactual? What would the world have been if there was no Buddhism? Its an unanswerable question.
My other main thought was this may be a pitfall of transferring the Dharma to the west. The western mind tends to be more externally directed. Buddhism is an internally driven path. Judging the success of Buddhism by how much of a pure land our world is, I think, misses the mark.
I also worry about becoming authoritarian in the pursuit of perfecting the world. If people don't willingly go along with your plan to make their lives better, how much will you compel them "for their own good"?
I think it’s interesting that Jundo lives in Tsukuba, a well-known Japanese science and technology center, and that his video series is about how Buddhism and science and technology will interact. He seems to be well-placed to talk on this.
Buddhism has always adapted to new conditions and new locations, it will be interesting to see if it can flourish in a new modality. Perhaps Jundo and his book will cause a new enthusiasm.
After some years away, I come back to see a statement the "Buddhism has failed". As far as I can tell, failure can only arise when some sort of success is aimed at. What, I wonder, is the "successful outcome" enshrined in the Dharma? As far as I can see - and my vision is, admittedly, limited, any such outcome is personal. It cannot "fail", it can only carry on from here until rebirth ends.
I hope that an image from Christian iconography does not offend but I am reminded of the Stations of the Cross where Jesus falls over and over. The point is that he gets up again.
Oh, I would never force anyone. Nor would I proselytize. What I write is a plan to instill peace and charity, empathy and moderation in hearts, voluntarily without compulsion for the general population, both Buddhist and non-Buddhist, voluntarily. No need even to be Buddhist really, as these are values shared by Buddhists with people of other religions and humanist philosophies.
Gassho, Jundo
100% of the proceeds will go to Buddhist and other charities, nothing to me. I would never sell Dharma.
The mission is in the Vow is to save all sentient beings, though numberless, from Dukkha as well as, for us engaged folks in this modern world, war and violence, hunger and poverty, and the like.
Gassho, Jundo
I believe that the world would be worse had there been no Buddhism, of course. But I do not believe that the mission and Vow to rescue all sentient beings, though numberless, is yet done. Do not only look "internally," but outwardly too ... beyond in or out.
My ideas compel nobody in the general population, need not be unanimous and will be thoroughly voluntary (yes, even in this world where we cannot get people to agree on almost anything it seems.)
Gassho, Jundo
I watched the whole video. The premise here seems to be that there aren't enough Buddhists in the world, despite all those centuries of vigorous bead twirling, so Buddhism is a failure. But it's going to be OK, maybe, because now there are iPhones, and also we can buy this new book.
$
Whether selling your book on this site is appropriate is for others to determine, but I do have a few questions. Let's say there are some 500 million Buddhists inhabiting the planet. Maybe that's not enough. But there are fewer than 1 million physicists. Is physics therefore a failure? Is it failing 500 times worse than Buddhism is? Should we try to sell more physics books?
Is spreading to more and more people the measure of success? I think it might be a more useful metric of "success" for cancer than for Buddhism.
Lest this sound flippant, I am actually perfectly sincere in the perspective I'm presenting. Our amazing world is rich rich rich in ideas, the ideas within Buddhism being among them. To me, success is ACCESS to those ideas. Think about it: Buddhism has been preserved and amplified over the centuries. Centuries! Seriously, that's a miracle to me. We don't have to all adopt Buddhism. But if we'd never heard of it and couldn't explore it and think about it and incorporate the parts we find inspiring or useful, then THAT would be a failure.
Peace, brother.
I think I see where you are coming from Jundo....
As digital communication grows, the Dharma can be spread through online resources like apps and virtual communities, making teachings accessible worldwide.
And with the improved translation technology which is becoming available this can help spread Buddhist teachings to people worldwide by making them available in many languages. This promotes cross-cultural understanding and wider access to Dharma teachings AKA Buddhist wisdom.
And Buddhism's values can influence how we use and develop technology, promoting well-being and ethical responsibility.
Digital Dharma...The shape of things to come...
TBF…I do see you chatted once in 2015 and then 2017…so I’m not saying never. And maybe you’ve been a lurker, I dunno.
BTW…Hi Simon…I remember you!! Hope all is well….welcome back
I assure you that it is not about converting Buddhists, but about ending Dukkha suffering in a Buddhist sense, and the suffering of this ordinary world of war, poverty and such. The failure is that. In that aspiration, I see no need and see no possibility of converting all to Buddhism. That is not what is most important at all.
Nor am I selling a book: 100% of any proceeds will go to Buddhist and other charities, not any to me. The book is just a vehicle for expanding on the propositions.
By the way, I have been a member of this place since the first week it opened its doors, I think. I just don't post here much.
Gassho, Jundo
As I am someone who has guided a primarily digital Sangha for a bit short of 20 years (www.treeleaf.org), I agree. However, that is not the technology I mean, only a small part.
I am speaking primarily of medicine and new biology, understanding and regulating the root of anger, violence, excess desire and the like in the human heart. I will say more about that another time. Such technology is coming, I am worried about it, I fear it can be a source of great damage if misused, but I also feel it cannot be stopped at this point and will be misused by those with other agendas unless we are suggest better ways ... so we Buddhists (and other people who care and share such values) can ask if it can and should be employed to better this world, bringing peace, caring. I feel that it can help realize traditional Buddhist goals regarding both Dukkha and material hunger, violence and ecological disaster in this world.
Gassho, J
I think you can’t rescue those who don’t want to be rescued. The most you can do is make sure they know of the possibility of inner peace and freedom. Many people are too busy living the lives that society sets out for them — partner, house, children, career — and they don’t even know of the Dharma.
Certainly it’s always going to be the case that some portion of the population is going to choose not to engage with the Dharma, and so you could say that the mission to rescue all sentient beings is a never ending treadmill. If you look at the Christians they have a long history with proselytising and missionary work, and they work on the desire for pleasure (“heaven”) and the fear of pain (“hell”), and many of those people aren’t necessarily benefitted by a new religion.
The Dalai Lama once said, “don’t become a Buddhist, but become a better whatever-you-are”. He doesn’t feel that the only path to inner peace and freedom is through the Dharma. People becoming Buddhist may separate them from their family who think they are no longer ‘saved’. The whole impulse to rescue people is suspect.
I think Jon Kabat-Zinn's work in bringing meditation to the masses has been a powerful move in this direction. Also, I've long followed the Dalai Lama and his meeting with scientists in the Mind and Life conferences. I think that is also a way Buddhism has made efforts at easing the suffering in the world.
I think what is getting under people's skins here is the "Buddhism has failed" slogan. In my opinion its hyperbolic and a symptom of a problem in the culture at large, that of sensationalism and playing to our baser emotions.
I propose ways to get people (and it does not have to be everyone either) to voluntarily, of their own free will, without force or compulsion, choose to change because it leaves them healthier, happier, more joyous to do so. And my proposal is not about getting everyone to practice Dharma or become Buddhists, but to change the propensity to anger and violence, selfishness and excess consumption within their own heart. They need not be formally Buddhist to do so.
Gassho, J
Buddhism has failed for the billions, even though it has helped you and me and millions over the generations. I don't know how to say it less directly. Our tools and methods were limited in the past and today. It need not always be so.
Gassho, J
Sounds wonderful, I look forward to hearing more about it.
Idle interruptions from a zafu.
Yes the title of your thread is bombastically eye-catching but this is understandable from a marketing outlook when having to compete with a million other Buddhist books.
I certainly don't envy any Buddhist author on their new book launch on Buddhism's failures, trying to assert that no spiritual materialism was involved in the making of it, because no profit from it accrues to the author. Of course, fame itself is a profit that bests any material profit.
I do not know you personally, (although I have referred other seekers in the past to your site) and so am not accusing you of the above. I only marvel at how difficult a practicing exercise it must be to labor over such love without becoming entangled with its outcome.
From this zafu's view, the world is little more than a stage where karmic inertia continually arises and departs, from former states of congealing to their latter states of dissipation.
The Buddha only offered the means of lessening the attachments and corresponding sufferings that any actor might experience of this stage's karmic chaos.
Expecting Buddhism to be something more than that, or judging it by worldly views as a success or failure, can be a classical defense of one's own spiritual materialism.
Vows can be just as bombastic but in the end, are simply an expressed hope of furthering selflessness over selfishness. I think that the quantifying of such balances are better left to the practitioner observing themself than to the world as a whole. I remind myself sometimes of all that the Buddha chose not to teach about because he said it just didn't apply to ones walk along the path towards suffering's cessation.
In Gassho
Greater outreach of Buddhist principles and practices sounds great to me. There's something in the tone or approach, though my understanding of it is very superficial at this point, that doesn't agree with me. Maybe some sort of perfectionism? That Buddhism isn't good enough unless and until it touches everything.
I could just be reading into what you're saying or intending and have a biased reaction against coercive methods. Maybe you have a light touch, but when I hear talk like yours I tend to worry that if voluntary efforts fail, being more coercive becomes acceptable in a ends justifying the means sort of way.
Hi,
Believe it or not, I wrote the darn thing (not the greatest book ever written) out of real need to do something to relieve Dukkha as well as to help end the war we witness every day in the news, the abused and hungry children, the environmental decline. Please believe me that the book is just a vehicle to propose means available, as we Buddhists (together with others) must and can do more. Do not confuse the book with the message in the book. So far, we have failed greatly in that regard.
If your Buddhist practice is only concerned with your personal Karma, well then, I suppose that is your business.
Gassho, Jundo
If you can explain Dharma in English without using foreign language terms or even the word Buddhism, while making clear its obvious benefits, then you may have something that will catch on. I think that was the great benefit of mindfulness based stress relief, that it presented mindfulness as something new, fresh, without baggage and beneficial. And that is why many therapists got on the bandwagon and promoted it.
Second in the series ...
To save the suffering sentient beings we have utterly FAILED to save, it is time for ...
A ZEN MOON SHOT!
Traditional means rescued me, I hope you, and certainly so many generations of millions of Buddhists ... but what of the BILLIONS and BILLIONS of this world's suffering beings we have thoroughly FAILED to reach? We have broken our vows so far.
Thus, it is time to add to our meditation and twirling beads, looking toward the Zen of the 22nd Century, respecting the past but not trapped in a museum of the 12th Century.
The old methods are powerful methods, they are to be cherished, kept and nourished, but they reach relatively few, failing to liberate the hearts of most. It is time to begin exploration of technology and the laboratory, medicine, biology, engineering, nanotech, genetics and coming advances in neuro-science, all in extension ... never replacement ... of our ancient Buddhist teachings and wonderful Zen practices.
Please take a moment to hear why ...
The Mind & Life Institute
This video comes across as more balanced and nuanced than the first. Perhaps that has some intent behind it? Grab the attention then get into details?
What it sounds like you're suggesting is right along the lines of the Dalai Lama and the Mind and Life institute. Dialoguing with science and innovation to have an influence on its direction.
More directly to what I think you're saying in the details. Biological and medical engineering will allow humans to direct our behavior in powerful new ways. You're not advocating for it, you're saying it IS coming and as Buddhist, and all well meaning people, we should get behind positive uses of the technology. I think that all sounds good to my ears.
Still I would caution against an overly idealistic view of new tech's potential. Its absolutely possible to end up in a dystopia with positive intentions. Brave New World comes immediately to mind. A world where all stress is engineered out also likely removes the potential for growth.
From what I gather this is what the Mind & Life Institute is about...
I watched the video, and it is unclear to me how these things are going to influence the billions of humans. The USA is home to about 350 million people, the European Union to about 550 million. China has about 1.4 billion people, India about 1.3 billion, out of a total world population of 8.1 billion people.
New technology doesn’t move so quickly towards the billions. There are still people to whom a smartphone is new, and it has spread like wildfire, being the first computer that many people own.
54% of the world owns a smartphone.
You could follow the road of politics. In the successful Trump election campaign of 2016 he made use of Cambridge Analytica to find the psychological levers which motivate people to vote a particular way. They profiled 50 million Americans from Facebook data.
Would you want to “persuade” all these people to take up Dharma?
I don't care about the money from the book. You're still trying to sell it. You're selling Dharma. You just aren't keeping the money. My guru earns his living from his books. What he doesn't keep are the annual offerings made by his centers and the national organization. He sends the checks back. I don't care if you keep the money or not, Jundo. I care about seeing things for what they are, and you sir, are, for whatever reason, trying to sell a book.
Good luck :-)
As someone who TRIES to sell their soul to the devil (or God, goddesses or the flying teapot of His Unholiness the Flying Spaghetti Noodliness). So far?
No Succession.
I am pleased to retort accusations of marketing. I did it for the laffs ...
I totally get that Lob!
Odd. Reminiscent of an American evangelist. Slightly scary.
I was thinking perhaps like a Silicon Valley ideas man pitching a new start-up? But yes.
That too. Morphed with Kenneth Copeland.
Estimated net worth 760 million USD, not bad for a tv pastor. The God Game does seem to pay well these days. Although on Reddit he is denounced as a charlatan fleecing the gullible. Not the most flattering comparison for dear Jundo.
Oh well……😬
The problem seems to be Jundo's presentation in the OP than anything about the money.
If it was going to be used as a fund-raiser, he should have led with that and not some egregious overstatement. In fact, "Buddhism Has Failed" should have been toned way down, otherwise it sounds like a bush-league, liberal pundit, you-tuber, trying to get attention for his videos and monetizing his channel. A real turn-off.
I wish Jundo the best of luck on his book. Maybe, after I get rid of the bad taste in my mouth, I'll buy a copy.
It’s the third largest religion in the world, after Christianity and Mohammedanism. Seems kind of odd to say ‘it has failed’.
The arrogance of the man astounds me actually, 2500 years and all the various traditions and methods casually consigned to the bin as a “failure” but don’t worry buy this book and it’ll be fine.
Seems like Jundo has left the building.
Maybe the mods should close the thread?
I think Jundo will be back with part 3 of his video series…
Let’s hope not
Lets try to keep any criticism we have to the ideas or approach and avoid critiquing Jundo as a person. We really don't know all that much about him.
I've seen some blunt comments to be sure, but I haven't seen anyone criticize Jundo as a person. I don't know him personally. I have no idea about his family, his friends, what he's like at the office, etc. All I know is what I see here:
1. He's using a clickbait banner for his funnel
2. The funnel is to book sales
3. He denies he's selling books (despite providing us the links)
4. Beneath all that, he's advocating (I think; I didn't buy the books) recognition of the potential for technology to increase the dissemination of a message; the message being Buddhism in this case.
Having observed him here and in the videos to be observant and articulate, i recognize that there is certainly the potential for him to contribute meaningfully to the forum should he choose.
I doubt he'll choose. Among us, Shoshin did engage him on the concepts, at least initially. But critical mass in this thread seems to be that the sales/denial/innocense approach is off-putting (as it is to me), possibly fatally, and should he see this and decide to engage and salvage the effort here, it will be at notable cost in time and focus, for a very small audience/prospect pool. (And his approach will have to be "OK, OK, my cloak is off now; let's talk.") If he doesn't resurface, or if he does but continues on the marketing trajectory, then it was just a sales channel. If he comes back and engages in substantive discussion about technology and the expanded medium it confers, it could definitely be quite an interesting conversation.
My prediction and my hope are opposites. Jundo, come through!
Nor will you from me.
I was a member of his online temple/forum and Zen Roshi training program for about a year. Obviously I can not be trained to such high aspirations BUT I can attest that the support and people at treeleaf Zendo will further your unfolding ...
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forum.php
Jundo’s third video…
In some ways what he says resonates. I think that Buddhism hasn’t really made the jump to the technological age, and with the Treeleaf Zendo he is kind of at the forefront of Buddhism on the internet. Also with where he lives in Japan he is at the cutting edge of technology.
But to me a Buddhist ‘moon shot’ is about giving people in the smartphone space an incentive to engage with Buddhism. That is 54% of the human population. You could make it as simple and direct as putting a Buddhist education on a smartphone app.
But really what we want to do is make Buddhist ideas ‘go viral’, there are probably many ways to do this if there are enough techno-Buddhists.
Tecno-buddhists? Let's rave. @lobster
Maybe Jundo wants to extend the Dharma, noble quest.
Anything wrong in expressing enthuthiasm for the spreading of Buddhist practice?
Maybe I should just leave the door open and write...
Zazen...live !
Rave, jazz and Jive to the can-can.
Jundo is a bot.
Nothing there but stuff.
Free the stuffing!
Sing and chant Hoo! Ray!
I think that, either conceptually, by creating a dharma for the 21st century, or by reach, by creating a dharma that goes places that others haven’t gone. Maybe a bit of both.