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My mind keeps on chattering in meditation
misecmisc1
I am a HinduIndia Veteran
Hi All,
i have been meditating since 1 month now. Two questions:
1. these days when i doing meditation, my mind keeps on chattering. what happens is this - a thought arises, i tell my mind to let it go, then another thought arises in my mind - saying let it go is also a thought - so i m trying to stop a thought with another thought - then i say to my mind to focus on my breath - then again a thought comes that i m saying to my mind to focus on my breath - so i m again raising a thought in my mind to focus on breath. So what i observe is all the time of meditation, my mind keeps on chattering. So how to make my mind silent?
2. when i sit to meditate in full-lotus position with my back straight, neck and head straight over my shoulder - then after 5 min, my head moves slightly and a thought comes to sit in proper way - so i try to keep my head again straight over my shoulder - then a thought comes is currently my head straight or slightly tilted over my shoulder - then i try to make my head straight over my shoulder - then again after 5 min, my head moves and this story repeats again. I think because of sleepiness, my head moves. So how to get rid of this sleepiness in meditation?
Please suggest. Thanks.
i have been meditating since 1 month now. Two questions:
1. these days when i doing meditation, my mind keeps on chattering. what happens is this - a thought arises, i tell my mind to let it go, then another thought arises in my mind - saying let it go is also a thought - so i m trying to stop a thought with another thought - then i say to my mind to focus on my breath - then again a thought comes that i m saying to my mind to focus on my breath - so i m again raising a thought in my mind to focus on breath. So what i observe is all the time of meditation, my mind keeps on chattering. So how to make my mind silent?
2. when i sit to meditate in full-lotus position with my back straight, neck and head straight over my shoulder - then after 5 min, my head moves slightly and a thought comes to sit in proper way - so i try to keep my head again straight over my shoulder - then a thought comes is currently my head straight or slightly tilted over my shoulder - then i try to make my head straight over my shoulder - then again after 5 min, my head moves and this story repeats again. I think because of sleepiness, my head moves. So how to get rid of this sleepiness in meditation?
Please suggest. Thanks.
0
Comments
Understand that and change your approach.
Be with your thoughts, sensations, noises,etc. they are all valid. They all share the dharma.
You won't win if you want to change your situation. Surrender and learn to just be with tiredness or a monkey mind. Examine it like a scientist would.
I highly suggest learning how to label what pops up. Then to kindly observe and examine each tourist. Notice how you like, dislike, indifference. Just be with everything. If theres nothing to be with then return to the breath.
You will not win when you are in war with your mind. Meditation is not about changing what is. It is about learn to live on relation to what is. This is done by just sitting with everything. All our shit and beauty.
i am observing that during my meditation, i am feeling sleepiness. i want to meditate with my eyes closed. i know i have to increase my concentration on my breath to avoid sleepiness. Any other suggestion how to get rid of this sleepiness. please suggest.
Sleepiness! That is also very common. Welcome to the 2nd club!
i have raised another post regarding is my meditation going properly - in this i have raised the question regarding ringing in my right ear. can you all please go through my this another post and help me.
Any more suggestions, please.
This does not need to be something else.
Since this is not and has no need to be something else, what is it?
"As a fletcher makes straight his arrow, a wise man makes straight his trembling and unsteady thought, which is difficult to guard, difficult to hold back."
- The Dhammapada
Good luck with it and may your actions benefit us all.
For good posture, try sitting with your back against the wall.
you REALLY have to be mindful of the breath, it takes a lot of work.monkey mind is going to last a while. the more you practice the quieter you will get. Ajahn Brahm has useful teachings on this. you can just note instead of saying 'letting go' or whatever... letting go/noting the thought is just to dissociate from it enough to observe it and allow it to pass.
http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/The_Basic_Method_of_Meditation_by_Ajahn_Brahmavamso
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe5-6.html
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe7.html
you can try a few deep breaths if your mind gets especially agitated during (or before) meditation. 3-4 full inhale, hold for a second, full exhale. it works well for tiredness in meditation as well. you can also try opening your eyes... you may just need more sleep too! Bhante Gunaratana has some useful teachings on dealing with meditation hindrances in his books.
Thanks for your replies. today when i sat for meditation, i previously decided to not to say let go in the mind. let the thought play itself.
so what happened was this: a thought came - somehow got engaged in it, then somehow it struck me that i had to put attention on my breath - so just started observing the breath - the thought went after few seconds - after sometime another thought came - then got engaged little bit again and somehow again it came to my mind to put attention on my breath - so just observed the breath again.
Moreover the ringing sound - or tinnitus which i seem to have as suggested to me in my other post - started at background - BUT NOW another problem arose today - even though i was not trying to focus on the ringing sound, when there was a gap between 2 breaths, my focus went to ringing sound - then got engaged in it - then somehow struck in my mind to focus on breath and then focused on breath. Since this ringing sound is due to tinnitus, so it is a disturbance. Moreover, even tried to meditate in a quiet place, still we hear external noises. So how to avoid external noises to focus in meditation?
Moreover i observed that sometimes i was cautiously breathing to focus my attention on breath, rather than naturally breathing - So what to do in such situation - means sometimes it becomes difficult to know if we are cautiously breathing or breathing naturally - so how to know if we are cautiously breathing and how to avoid cautiously breathing? - I know it can be a very stupid question to ask but still asking - please help.
Please suggest.
I think you're over-thinking it.
Hope hat helps.
2. Don't solicit a thousand opinions off the internet - this is likely to just turn you around in circles. If you are serious about your practice, find and locate a qualified teacher whom you can work with but also do not be offended if they point you back to your practice
3. In meditation, at least Buddhist meditation, we are not trying to block out all disturbances and external sensory inputs. If you can't handle those, it's not yet proper meditation IMO. Also, if you are just trying to block out things, it might be another good reason for you to seek out a qualified teacher in person - but it would also require you to be open to their suggestions and guidance too - as I am not sure where you are getting your meditation ideas from?
4. As to the breath, at first when we meditate things can be and seem unnatural. That's OK. Perseverance furthers but also be patient if you can...
Another 2c.
Thanks for the consideration.
Well wishes,
Abu
@floating_abu: Thanks for your reply. Seeking a qualified teacher in person is difficult for me - because neither i have time to search for a teacher, nor i can be regular enough to meet him. i am a working professional and i have a family too. as far as your question regarding meditation is concerned, i have an objective in my mind to achieve because of which i am doing meditation - but it seems to me that i shall never be able to achieve my objective the way i am proceeding - but will still try to achieve it - as it is said in Bhagwad Geeta - do your work and be detached to the fruits of work.
By the way, what is this IMO? i am seeing this in many posts but what is the full-form of IMO? please let me know.
Try some guided meditations. It worked wonders for me in the beginning when my mind was just too loud. Mantras too...
It sounds like you are being a little too hard on yourself and expecting too much out of meditation for how long you've been practicing. I remember being right there when I first started. The harder I "tried" the harder it got. Then I got to the point where I kinda just surrendered to the whole process of it and things started moving in the right direction.
Don't take your mind and your thoughts so seriously. Notice them, laugh at them, and let them go.
Don't give up.
you cant THINK your way into automating the breathing, uncontrolled breathing happens when you stop thinking about it. that's how the controllable automated systems in the body work... you think about breathing and you control breathing. you think about something else and the breath automates. the more you RELAX and let go, the more you will be able to observe the breath without control. its a natural process so dont try to hard, just establish mindfulness on the breath and it will all fall into place.
It has been one month since i am doing meditation currently on a daily basis once, with few days missing in between.
So is the natural breathing in nature too short and too small and that too with large gap in between two breaths - or only i am facing this thing? Please suggest.
Moreover i have read somewhere that the more distorted your breathing is, the more distorted your mind is.
is the natural breathing in nature too short and too small and that too with large gap in between two breaths - or only i am facing this thing? It can be a very stupid question again, but please help. Please suggest.
FEELING the breath is not controlled breathing. FEELING the breath means observing the physical tactile sensations that are produced in the body by the movement of the breath. usually the sensation in the nose or the abdomen rising&falling, or whatever.
thinking 'i am feeling a sensation in my nose' is not the same as observing (awareness without commentary) a sensation in the nose. the difference is subtle... it should make itself apparent with time.
the uncontrolled breath (google: resting tidal volume for a more scientific understanding) is very short and small. in my experience its normal to have a long gap between breaths when you are concentrated. just sit with the silence between breaths... observe it, what arises & passes in it, etc. physiologically the reason your breath becomes so short and sparse when you're meditating is your metabolic demands are less... you need less oxygen and are producing less carbon dioxide, therefor there is less need to breath.
in my experience the breath will also get longer as you become more concentrated. what i mean by longer is that your total tidal volume will remain the same but the length of time it takes to achieve it will be longer. so you will be breathing same amount of air, just over a longer period of time.
theres no need to worry about the breath or what its doing in any way. just watch it.
I'm not sure of overall breathing patterns are indicative of the state of a persons mind but the mind directly influences the breath and vice versa. a very easy way to see this is to wait for the next time you become angry, anxious or afraid and then observe the state of your breathing. your breath will be tight, shallow & fast. then observe your breath when you are relaxed... the breath will be loose & longer.
if you catch yourself being tight & breathing shallow when you're angry.. observe your mind. then consciously relax the muscles that are tight in your stomach and chest and breath longer, slower breath. observe how this effects your mind.
controlling the breath will also influence the state of the mind. this is the basis for pranayama. you can easily observe this effect doing the simple breathing exercises i mentioned a few posts up.
you would really benefit from reading mindfulness in plain english:
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
I too suffer from tinnitus:
let me give you a mental image here:
Pretend you're at the local city zoo. And that it's a fine summer morning. Around dawn, in fact; with the promise of a fine, warm day....
And where do you find yourself? Why, in the massive, covered aviary, where there are 25 different species of birds.
Now, you know what happens at dawn, right?
Right. we get the 'Dawn Chorus'.
Imagine being in an aviary, with close to 200 birds, all yelling their little lungs out.
Noisy, isn't it?
And get this: There's one persistent, loud little blighter, whose whacking out his song, higher and more shrilly than all the others.
so you get the background cacophony, and the single strident song, over it.
24/7. 365/365.
Sometimes, so loud you feel you need to run a mile, at others, quite calm and 'background-ish' so that you hardly notice it, but you know it's there.
And on top of that, you have an imitative aspect: Some times, if you hear a sibilant sound, like an alarm going off, or a siren, then your ears pick that up, and repeat it all the time, all day, so effectively, you hear that alarm, or siren, continually, until it dies a natural death.
Then it's back to the birds....
That's my deal.
All the time.
Tinnitus, is incurable. But apparently, it can be managed.... some say by diet, others by water intake. I've never found a consistency....
"White noise" - actually has the bizarre effect of making it worse.
It's as if my ears start to compete with the white noise, to get the better of it....
I work with it.
Tell me what other choice I have!
But it's intrusive, occasionally inhibiting - I can't hear people properly - and when I have a head-cold and my sinuses are blocked, it's the devil's own job overcoming the discomfort.
My audiologist says it's one of the worst cases he's come across..... but he's fascinated as to how I remain so calm.
And that's precisely what I told him.
I have to work with it.
I have no other choice.
I merely posted to illustrate that while you seek a quiet place to meditate @misecmisc1, sometimes, no such place exists.
The truly only quiet place you have access to, is within yourself.
Unfortunately, if you can't beat it - join it.
Turn the noise into a meditative exercise: instead of blocking it out, welcome it. Discern it to its fullest content. Analyse every single part of the noise, and see where it comes from.
I do this with music, sometimes. I try to hear every individual music part, and every single instrument over the others.... I mentally isolate each component and see them making up the whole.
I try not to then let my attention wander, to consider the player, who he or she is, what life they lead, how they learnt the instrument and why.....I remain with the sound. I become so familiar with it, it becomes my friend.
Now, just to re-iterate, what you have already explained me, so that to see if i have understood clearly, my understanding is as follows - 'feel breath' means physically feeling air coming in and out of nose with stomach rising and falling but with a slight feeling thought in mind that the body is experiencing this physical feeling - 'observe breath' means being aware of breath without generating a feeling thought in mind about the physical feeling, rather when the breath comes,be aware of the air coming inside nose and stomach rising and when the breath goes out,be aware of the air going out of nose and stomach falling.
Please let me know if now this understanding is ok.
@federica: Thanks.
@all: Thanks.
You would choose one or the other. The physical sensation of the breath contacting the nose in a single area, re: the rims of the nostril (not following the sensations in and out) OR the rising and falling sensation of the abdomen. The idea is to give the mind a single, very narrow area of sensation to concentrate on.
Your understanding of observing is correct in MY understanding of observing. Ajahn Brahm has some really good and effective ways of explaining and teaching the act of observing without commentary. He teaches this as a necessary prerequisite for Mindfulness of Breathing Meditation.
Again I think you would really benefit from reading 'Mindfulness in Plain English' by Bhante Gunaratana or 'Mindfulness, Bliss & Beyond' by Ajahn Brahm. 99% of what I said was just a less skillful explanation of what they say in their books... really, they are both infinitely more skillful in explaining this all in a clear and understandable way. They also explain MANY skilful and totally effective ways of dealing with hindrances in meditation.
Mindfulness in Plain English is available for free here:
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
The core chapters of Mindfulness Bliss and Beyond are available for free here:
http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Mindfulness-Bliss-and-Beyond-A-Meditators-Handbook.pdf
My answer to your quandary is to take it much easier on yourself and not be so obsessed with the very fine detail.
The analogy I would employ is to think of yourself swimming out at sea far away from any land. Imagine now that there is a fair swell on and youre rising and falling as the swell waves move through you. We're talking about big waves 5m+ here!
In the analogy, the sea and the waves are the part of your mind that you perceive you cannot control (thoughts popping up etc) - 'you' are the conscious parts of your mind.
I hope you can see that you could swim under the waves to reach a calm place but ultimately you would have to come back up for air, you could swim against the waves but that wuold be futile, you could swim with the waves but eventually you will tire... in the same way, battling with your thoughts or trying to supress them is futile - your brain will cease activity when youre dead - until then, your synapses will be constantly firing!
The solution is to simply relax - allow your body to float in the water and for the waves to pass through you - you will rise and fall naturally and no energy will be expended.
This may help you to understand how to deal with your rising thoughts - allow them to form, investigate them if you choose and then let them pass - the moment will still be there when the thoughts pass - after some time, your thoughts will diminish as your mind adapts to your meditative practice - another way of expressing this is to say do not attach to your thoughts - in essence this means that eventually you will be able to have thoughts that do not envoke an emotional response - they are simply thoughts!
As for seating position etc - dont worry - sit in a position where you will be comfortable and least figgety for the period of your meditation - it doesnt really matter how you sit as long as youre comfortable and at ease.
How to increase our concentration in meditation? my meditation details: sitting meditation with eyes closed with meditation object as breath.
How to know if we are making any progress in our meditation - or just moving in round circles at some initial stage or just staying at the initial stage everyday and not progressing at all?
Please suggest.
here
One month is not long enough to gauge results. Results make themselves apparent, so just practice and don't worry. The 5 precepts are important for concentration.
Thanks.
My recent observation - when the mind is quiet for a moment say and we try that silence to continue by focusing on breath, then after 2 or 3 sec i started to think if i am sleeping in this moment or waking - suddenly i realize that my head may have drifted by 1 or 2 degrees from straight position, then i try to straighten my head, then i realize we should not move in meditation and then this chatter continues, then i dont try to forcefully stop it, try to let it go - then some other thought comes and when i try not to put attention on that thought, after sometime that momentary silence comes up - then the above cycle repeats itself.
Moreover the breath is not realized in the inner rim of nose, rather the air is not felt anywhere, but there is a physical movement of nose muscles due to breathing and because of this, i am realizing that i am breathing and i am taking this as observing the breath.
So 2 questions - in that silence how to decide if we are mindfully aware or sleeping? is realizing the physical movement of nose can be considered as observing the breath - or only feeling air can be considered observing the breath? These questions may be too stupid to ask, but you all can consider me that stupid to ask such questions.
Please help.
If you are still aware its unlikely you're asleep... If you actually fall asleep you'll wake up some time later, not instantly. The head nodding is probably because you're tired. Try turning on the lights, opening your eyes or doing the breathing exercise we talked about before. You may just need to sleep more. If your head nods, straighten up and don't think about it just return to the breath.
I've found this nodding happens when I THINK a though vs observing it. The only way I can describe it is like the difference between watching a movie and being in the movie. As soon as I go from being aware of a thought bubble to being IN a thought bubble... My head nods. See if you can observe that difference...its VERY subtle. Seeing that difference can cause major changes in your relationships with your thoughts.
The feeling of breath in the nose is an aggregate of feeling... A combination of many different types of sensory information. The pressure causes the nose to more, the air pushes on hairs, the molecules in the air bounce off your skin cells, the contraction of the muscles in the nostrils. Any sensation caused by the air in the nose is fine... Don't worry just pick one and stick with it.
Your questions aren't stupid they are extremely important things that you need to understand if you want to meditate successfully. "The only stupid question is a question not asked"... It seems like you are making progress with your mindfulness and concentration... This is good, keep at it
When I started meditating, I was pushing away (stray thoughts) and that didn't work. Now I believe it is a sort of a desire too, a desire to get rid of stuff.
It really makes no sense when someone explains this to you because what happens in meditation is not intellectual. You just have to pick a practice and stick to it. It's not easy and there will be a lot of frustration and doubt. But little by little things change.
@all: Thanks.
Hi ajnast4r/all,
So a query - during a day how many hours at least we should sleep? any idea please. i am having sleep for a total of 6 hours in 24 hours. so is this amount of sleep per day is sufficient or i should sleep more? my age is 31 years. please suggest.
we read online that monks should only sleep 4 hours and whatnot but dont confuse that with guidelines for laypeople. monks eat much less, dont do much physical activity, and spend many hours everyday in deep meditation so this is not a good guideline for the layperson.
i think, as you have already suggested above, it is because of my less sleep as even though in totality i may have slept for nearly 7 hours, but my actual net sleep would have been 5 hours or less because of the above disturbances in my sleep. Am i thinking correctly here - or - is it something wrongly done by me in my meditation today? Please suggest.
Hi All,
Any suggestions please.