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@misecmisc1 I don't mind you asking, but I would really advice a bit of self investigation. If for every problem you need advice of others, your mind won't learn how to be a bit creative with problem solving. That's quite important, because in meditation, strange and unexpected things can and will pop up from time to time. If you have no solid base of self reliance, you may get scared by those experiences and meditation will not develop.
So try a bit, experiment a bit. Learn to solve problems. You also need it for investigation to get a bit deeper, mainly to leave all thoughts behind, sometimes you have to be creative. Don't be scared to make mistakes.
It seems to me that the level of conditioning of my mind is too much. Leave my body, even on little things my mind becomes agitated. For example, in our rented house, in one room we have kept many articles, so that our little daughter(1 year old) does not start to mishandle those articles. so we try that our daughter does not go to that room. i am observing(after the incident happens) the moment i notice that my daughter is trying to go in that room, my mind becomes agitated and instantly i try to react by either getting slightly angry on her - or - trying to forcefully take her away in another room.
another example - my daughter tries to press some key of my laptop, while i am working, then also my mind becomes agitated and reacts to it.
I cannot imagine how deep my mind is conditioned.
After the incident is over and then i think about it, i can recollect anicca, dukkha, anatta - But the question is how to decrease the level of conditioning of my mind, so that at least when such small things occur, my mind does not react immediately. Any suggestions please. Thanks in advance.
I don't know if you can stop your mind reacting that way... I think maybe it sort of dies down a little as you progress, but I don't think you can just make it go away. But you can acknowledge what your mind is doing, but not act in accordance with it. You can watch your mind get irritated, but you don't have to act irritated. You can see your mind get irritated but still act gently and kindly towards your daughter. Easier said than done but I don't think it's impossible.
It seems to me that the level of conditioning of my mind is too much. Leave my body, even on little things my mind becomes agitated. For example, in our rented house, in one room we have kept many articles, so that our little daughter(1 year old) does not start to mishandle those articles. so we try that our daughter does not go to that room. i am observing(after the incident happens) the moment i notice that my daughter is trying to go in that room, my mind becomes agitated and instantly i try to react by either getting slightly angry on her - or - trying to forcefully take her away in another room.
another example - my daughter tries to press some key of my laptop, while i am working, then also my mind becomes agitated and reacts to it.
I cannot imagine how deep my mind is conditioned.
After the incident is over and then i think about it, i can recollect anicca, dukkha, anatta - But the question is how to decrease the level of conditioning of my mind, so that at least when such small things occur, my mind does not react immediately. Any suggestions please. Thanks in advance.
You cannot "stop" your mind from reacting the way it does. What you need to do is realize that you are angry, and let that emotion be present and feel it. Sit there with it, don't push it away, and before you know it it will disappear. The more you practice this, the less power the emotion will have over you.
Also, I would suggest performing metta, or loving-kindness meditation. This, as a whole, will allow your emotions to shift towards a more positive outlook. It will grace you with further understanding of why you are getting angry, and perhaps you can replace these thoughts with compassionate ones towards yourself.
the question is how to decrease the level of conditioning of my mind, so that at least when such small things occur, my mind does not react immediately.
How many times did it take for you to understand and assimilate that red means stop and green means go? Now when you see a set of traffic lights showing red, do you see stop or do you just see a red light - with any red light even - is it an inclination to stop or just a light coloured a particular colour.
There is red and light and stop - the concepts of 'red' 'light' and 'stop' are working together in your mind and shaping your physical behaviour.
In the same way - there are many things inside you linked to frustration and anger (in the same way as red light is linked to stop) - when life touches on these issues, the connections fire - you react - then you think and ponder about the minutia of your natural reaction.
The light is just light - the red is just colour - stop is just a concept opposing start.
One way is via meditation - by better understanding yourself, you may be better placed to observe and ponder before you react - then perhaps, you shan't torture yourself so much after the event.
You cannot "stop" your mind from reacting the way it does. What you need to do is realize that you are angry, and let that emotion be present and feel it. Sit there with it, don't push it away, and before you know it it will disappear. The more you practice this, the less power the emotion will have over you.
Also, I would suggest performing metta, or loving-kindness meditation. This, as a whole, will allow your emotions to shift towards a more positive outlook. It will grace you with further understanding of why you are getting angry, and perhaps you can replace these thoughts with compassionate ones towards yourself.
Just to quote because I think it is a good post which esentially says everything I would have.
It goes into strategies for the removal of distracting thoughts, including "changing the subject" to a more skillful line of thought, and reflecting on the disadvantages of pursuing an unskillful line of thought. There are some parallels with the fourfold application of Right Effort.
Being a father and husband is necessary for the well being of the household so it is normal activity to be cautious and take care of the family. Your mind reacting immediately is probably better than reacting slowly in this situation.
As meditation practitioners we want to be able to reach a level of inner peace and equanimity, but we should not try to reach such levels by ignoring are duty as householders. We want to be free of suffering, but we should also try not to be the cause of it.
I'm an Hermeticist not a Buddhist. I have great admiration for Buddhism and often utilise its wisdom when educating my young daughter.
If I may, I'd like to respond to misemisc1, the originator of this discussion. I hope the following has value for others too. :-) (Apologies ... it's quite long!)
The chatter of the mind can be silenced. Indeed, the natural state of the mind is at rest. Achieving this is fairly straight-forward, but it will require some work. :-)
In Hermetics, we approach this problem over three steps, by mastering one step at a time. Here's the first:
1. Thought Observance
This is where you passively observe your thoughts. You detach from them and just watch them ... in the same way that you may watch fish in an aquarium.
That's the overview. Now for the specifics:
i. In the morning, after your breakfast and shower et cetera, enter your meditation space and sit in your preferred posture/asana.
Place a small table in front of you. Or maybe just another chair that's facing you.
On the table, place your timing device. This might be an alarm clock, a digital chime, or even a mobile phone.
Also place a simple notebook on the table, plus a pen.
On a new page in the notebook, write the current date and time. Also write a heading that shows the exericse you're currently working on ('Thought Observance') and the time you'll be practicing it for this morning (e.g. '60 minutes'). Also write the duration of each 'attempt' or 'iteration' (e.g. 'One minute').
ii. Regarding your posture/asana: ensure it's something you can maintain for 60 minutes without pain, pins and needles, discomfort, fidgeting, et cetera.
Suggestion: sit in a chair that's comfortable, but not too cushy. Position your bottom near the front of the chair so that your back is away from the back-rest. This will alleviate tiredness.
Place your feet flat on the floor with your knees at right-angles. Position your feet so that they're in line with your shoulders.
Straighten your spine without stretching it into a rigid state.
Position your head so the jawline is parallel with the floor. Place your hands face-down on your knees, or close to them.
iii. In your hands, hold a simple string of beads or knots. Hold the end of the string between the forefingers and thumbs of both hands.
iv. Set your timing device. For the purpose of this example I'll assume it's a mobile phone. Set a gentle alarm to go off in one hour from now. Then, set a separate timer: a count-down timer. Set it to chime (gently) after one minute, 30 seconds.
v. Start the count-down timer.
vi. Use the first 30 seconds of the count-down as a 'pre-roll'. That is, use it to relax your muscles, close your eyes, and acclimatise to the 'mental interior'. It helps to repeat the phrase 'Every muscle in my body is perfectly at ease', or similar.
Obviously, if 30 seconds is enough of a pre-roll, set it to something longer.
vii. You now have one minute to practice this exercise. Begin. Just watch your thoughts and the behaviour of your mind in a detached way. Don't prevent anything from arising. Just observe everything with perfect passivity.
You'll notice:
* the macro-thoughts ('Hey, that was a great show on the TV last night. I wonder what's gonna happen next week ... ?')
* the micro-thoughts (flashes of memory from any part of your life that just leap up out of nowhere!)
* the low-level, hypnagogic noise (the really crazy chatter and noise: voices of people you've never met, songs that go over and over and over, et cetera. This stuff is 'louder' when you're very tired!).
NOTE: you must observe everything that occurs in your mind, including the hypnagogic noise.
If, during this one minute, you lose the passivity and start actively engaging with the thoughts, move your string by one knot. Bring your consciousness back to passivity. If you lose it again, move the string to the next knot, et cetera.
viii. When your timer chimes after one minute, slowly open your eyes and re-acclimatise your senses to your room.
ix. Count the number of knots you moved. Reach for your pen and note that number in your notebook.
x. Reset your timer for one minute, 30 seconds.
xi. Repeat steps v - x until your alarm goes off, signalling the end of the hour. Make some final notes and observations about your practice. Repeat the whole process for an hour in the evening.
At this stage, you're aiming to master this exercise for one minute only - it might take a week. You'll know you've mastered it when you no longer count any knots on your string (i.e. you've detached your consciousness from your mental processes).
After mastering one minute, advance to one minute, 30 seconds. With the pre-roll, you'll set your count-down timer to two minutes.
Once you've mastered one minute, 30 seconds (another week), advance to two minutes et cetera. Continue adding 30 second increments until you reach 10 minutes. At this point you'll find that your mind is naturally gravitating towards silence when you meditate.
Then it's time for another exercise! :-)
2. Single Pointedness
This takes the mindfulness exericse that you already know well, and applies it to your meditations.
Note: this is not a visualisation exericse. This is about choosing one idea and giving it your full attention.
For example, you might choose a favourite song for your focus. Or doing the dishes. Or playing with your kids. Any idea will do. :-) Just make a point of keeping your attention completely on that exercise.
I'd suggest not focusing on your breath, because you're creating a small schism between the material (your physical breath) and the mental (the exercise you're doing in your mind). Your success will come faster if you focus on something that resides in your mind. :-)
So ... we'll now start again with one minute, plus the pre-roll. We'll repeat all of the above steps, but apply them to this new exercise.
As before, when you can masterfully do this for 10 minutes, you're ready for the final exercise ...
3. Vacancy Of The Mind
Even after mastering the previous exercises, the thought of holding nothing in your mind for a given period can seem daunting! :-) However, it's truly achievable.
The key to mastering this exercise is this: it's just the 'Thought Observance' exercise on steroids! :-) That is, you give your full and complete observation to the activities of your mind. If something emerges, 'stare hard' at it with your consciousness. It will run away! You don't need to push it.
You mind will already be quieter than before, by virtue of your recent successes. So we're just taking it to the next logical level ...
As before, start with one minute. Master that, then advance to one minute, 30 seconds. And so on until you can do this for 30 minutes (yes, it's possible!).
Again, the key is this: just observe. You don't need to do anything as violent as pushing thoughts away. Just expose any emerging thought to the full glare of your consciousness and it will dissolve with minimal effort from you.
Think of it as a cat chasing a mouse back into its hole. Keep the cat there until the mouse has 'dissolved'. :-) If it pokes it nose out again, send the cat right back to the hole instantly!
Do remember to keep notes of your successes as this will inspire you onwards. And if I may, please remember that the human being is composed of mind, soul (character) and physical body. When in balance, we're like an equilateral triangle. But if we devote too much effort to growing one side of the triangle, we can suffer serious negative consequences.
What I'm saying is this: the above exercises help your mind to mature. The 'mental side' of the triangle is therefore developing at a faster rate than the physical and soul sides.
To avoid serious issues associated with prematurely awakened Kundalini energy, please remember that your physical body and soul must mature at the same rate as your mind.
One query - i am finding it hard to retain my back straight during my sitting meditation. usually i find some position for my back to be straight when starting meditation, which seems ok to me, means neither too rigid to strain, nor too relax to go from '(' to ')' shape. But may be due to my lack of mindfulness on the body posture, my body slightly drifts and then i have to reshape my body to get back the straight back - usually when i am caught in external world thoughts or i try to be aware of my breathing and in that process, the back moves - also sometimes the back aches slightly so i need to move it. But i usually find that during my whole sitting even till end, i am trying to make my posture correct by straightening my back.
So now my meditation is having this back straightening thoughts, in addition to the normal external world thoughts, coming in my mind - to keep away my mind from focussing on my breathing.
So is straight back so important to keep that we should keep it in our mind throughout our meditation - or - we should try to keep our focus only on breathing and leave the back in whatever position it is in? Your suggestions, please. Thanks in advance.
So is straight back so important to keep that we should keep it in our mind throughout our meditation - or - we should try to keep our focus only on breathing and leave the back in whatever position it is in? Your suggestions, please. Thanks in advance.
Yes, this happens to me sometimes. The point of a straight back is to keep alert and to keep the chest open so that breathing is easy. So working on posture is important for practical reasons, but don't get too hung up on it. You could adjust your sitting position to see if that helps.
If you have posture problems overall, do some core exercises/yoga/pilates to strengthen your core and you will hold yourself upright/straight without having to try and concentrate on it. Also, I have a much easier time keeping my back straight if I am sitting on a cushion or pillows with my butt up off the ground and my legs on the ground.
nothing seems to be happening in my meditation - i know theoretically meditation is letting-go and no one is there to go anywhere - these things are ok - but my question is how to know whether my meditation is on the right track or on the wrong track. what is happening in my meditation is basically nothing - i sit, close my eyes, try to bring focus on nose or face, then feel the breath coming in and going out, this lasts for say 2 to 3 min, then my back aches slightly, i change my posture a little bit, it feels ok, meanwhile a thought comes, my mind gets entangled in it, then a thought comes to focus on my breath, then start focussing on my breath, since the gap between my two breaths is long, so there are long periods of nothing happening, then some thought arises, mind gets entangled and again a thought comes to focus on breath and this thing keeps on repeating.
sometimes i feel that the noise of the outside has got reduced a little bit - but it can also be the case that during those times the outside noise may have actually reduced a little bit.
since i have that constant humming sound in my ears, so there is always some sound available - either external sound coming through ears - or the humming sound of ears (i think this problem is called tinnitius in ears).
so i do not know if my meditation is going in the correct direction - or - i am just sitting and passing my time without doing the meditation properly.
You are aware of what's going on with your body, but are you also aware of your feelings (pleasant, unpleasant), mind (clear, unclear), and mental qualities (desire, no desire)? If not then I would try to expand my awareness. If your meditation is keeping you further away from the five hindrances then I believe it is going in the right direction.
Think in your heart of hears what you hope meditation will do for you. And then think why you want THAT to happen. Get to the bottom of your hopes and fears and sit with them.
But yeah, I would touch in to my 'heart/mind/citta' every once in awhile.
@driedleaf: thanks for your reply. let me see if i notice anything else except my body. currently i think there are no feelings there in my meditation just long periods of me sitting with some sounds going on either external sound or the ringing sound of my ears - or - may be i am not aware enough to notice the feelings. also if the mind is clear or not - how to know this thing?
how to know if there is desire there - if there is any thought, my mind gets entangled in it, then something says i had to watch the breath so i try to move my focus away from the thought and try to watch the breath, so how to know if there is any desire or no desire going on there? may be a silly question, but still asking. please suggest.
The aim of Buddhist meditation is to let go of these conditions of the mind, which doesn't mean denying, or getting rid of, or judging them. It means not believing them or following them; instead we listen to them as Dhamma, as conditions of the mind that arise and cease.With an attitude of awakened, attentive awareness, we learn to trust in just being the listener, the watcher, rather than being somebody trying to meditate to get some kind of result.
If we try to think about meditation practice as this or that, we're creating an image that we're trying to realise, rather than just trusting in the attentiveness of the mind, in mindfulness; letting go of the desire to find or grasp anything. As soon as we think about ourselves, we become a person - somebody - but when we are not thinking, the mind is quite empty and there is no sense of person. There is still consciousness, sensitivity, but it's not seen in terms of being a person, of being a man or a woman; there is just awareness of what is happening - what the feeling is, the mood, the atmosphere that one is experiencing in this moment. We can call this intuitive awareness. It is not programmed and conditioned by thought or memory or perception.
We are renouncing, abandoning, letting go of things. To the worldly mind, it might sound as though we're getting rid of something, or condemning the sense world, the pleasures and the beauty that we can all experience as human beings; rejecting it, because we see it as evil or wrong. But renunciation isn't a moral judgement against anything. Rather, it's a moving away from that which complicates and makes life difficult, towards the ultimate simplicity of pure mindfulness in the present moment; because enlightenment is here and now, the Truth is now. There is not anyone who can become anything, there is not anyone who is born or who will die - there is only this eternal now. This awareness is what we can tune into, as we let go of the appearances and the habitual tendencies.
When we emphasise our personality we create problems, because the personal qualities are different for each one of us. We have our common human problems: old age, sickness and death; all men have certain things in common; all women have certain conditions in common. But then there are certain attitudes, cultural expectations and assumptions, which are conditioned into the mind, instilled into us after we are born. Through mindfulness, we are able to get beyond this conditioning of the mind to the pure consciousness that isn't conditioned, but which is like the background, the emptiness, the blank sheet on which words are written. Our perceptions arise and cease on that blank sheet, that emptiness.
The personality, the self-consciousness, the fears and the desires of the mind are what they are; we are not trying to dismiss them or add to them, or make any problems or difficulties around them. We are willing to let them be what they are. They feel this way, they have this quality; they arise and cease. In that cessation there's the realisation of the peace, the bliss or the serenity of being, and there's no self in it. Everyone has that potential, that ability to realise this. We describe it as seeing the Dhamma, the way it is - it's not a matter of becoming anything at all.
Ajahn Sumedho.
Consciousness, thus unestablished, not proliferating, not performing any function, is released. Owing to its release, it stands still. Owing to its stillness, it is contented. Owing to its contentment, it is not agitated. Not agitated, he (the monk) is totally unbound right within. He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'
"For one knowing in this way, seeing in this way, monk, there is the immediate ending of fermentations."
@driedleaf: thanks for your reply. let me see if i notice anything else except my body. currently i think there are no feelings there in my meditation just long periods of me sitting with some sounds going on either external sound or the ringing sound of my ears - or - may be i am not aware enough to notice the feelings. also if the mind is clear or not - how to know this thing?
how to know if there is desire there - if there is any thought, my mind gets entangled in it, then something says i had to watch the breath so i try to move my focus away from the thought and try to watch the breath, so how to know if there is any desire or no desire going on there? may be a silly question, but still asking. please suggest.
Don't worry too much about it, you will know. Just keep following the breath. Our attention jumps here and there, but just come back to the breath and see what else you can notice while following the breath.
Your can notice whether your meditation is on the right track if it becomes peaceful and nice to do. As said, this will happen if you let go and not really are looking for something, but you can aid it a bit by putting some enjoyment into following the breath.
actually i heard this thing that if the meditation is peaceful, it indicates it is on right track. but there is something i cannot figure out in my meditation - means bluntly speaking - i do not know my meditation is peaceful or not - sounds like i am talking like a complete idiot, but this is the case that i do not know whether my meditation is peaceful or not.
something which i think i can tell about in my meditation as to what is happening is this - i know that i am not sleeping during the time i sit, there are many blank-out durations during which i am not sleeping and just the external sounds are coming or the ringing sound of my ears because of tinnitus problem is there.
1. sometimes i try just to be aware of every moment - but somehow i find that within one to two minutes, something inside me starts to choke and i find i am getting short of breath and need to breath somehow, then the next breath which i take feels like a really long breath - something like if you do not breathe for 2 min, then you feel the need for breathing and then you breath. it is not that i try not to breathe, rather i am trying to be just aware of whatever is happening every moment (may be will is involved here) and then i start feeling choked and lack of breath.
2. one more thing i observed though it rarely happens is that - the ringing sound of tinnitus in ears turns into a sound which is more uniform and dense - though it is difficult to explain - but from that '~' this type of sound it becomes a '-' this type of sound : meaning more dense and uniform without the ups and downs of the normal ringing town and without the period in which there is buzzing sound then silence like tee tee tee.
3. if i do not try to be aware of each moment using my will, then usually i think my mindfulness is so weak that within seconds it looses focus, i start thinking what just happened which is again thoughts of the moments just passed by, so in a way not in the present moment and then usually thoughts arise and mind gets entangled in it, goes some distance with those thoughts and then something says - watch the breath and then i try to be aware of the next breath, but one thing i try is not to breath cautiously, but most of the times while i try to be aware of my natural breathing, somehow my breathing gets affected and becomes cautious breathing.
so do you all kind of get if i am doing something wrong in my meditation? if yes, then please let me know where i am doing my meditation wrongly and also if you all can figure out from the above three points, something regarding whether my meditation is peaceful or not. thanks in advance for helping me. you all can consider me to be a complete stupid person to ask such stupid questions and that i am not able to figure out these things for myself.
Seems like you're doing just fine and mainly just need a bit more time. Those are not stupid questions. If my short replies make it seem like they are, I'm sorry, but I like to brief because there is not much to be said. There are some tricks and techniques people use, but it comes down to being aware of breathing. And if there's a sound, there's a sound. If there's not, there's not.
Depending on your understanding, it may help to get the "I" out of "I am mindful" and the "my" out of "my meditation". Mindfulness arises if you let it. It's not something you can force. So try to let the breath pull you in instead of you focusing on the breath. If you forcefully focus, it's too much effort and the mind doesn't like that; it'll back off. However, if you let the breath come to you, chances are the opposite happens. This is made easier by the suggestion I gave before, to enjoy breathing.
That's all a matter of applying right effort, which is not easy and a learning process in it's own right.
@Sabre: Thanks again for your reply. Seems like you have made an important point above. now just thinking about your reply - i think - the reason because of which i feel short of breath in trying to be aware of every moment is that i am putting effort on my mind to be aware through will, so it may be using energy of my body and may be in that duration i am stressing myself to be aware and so somehow blocking the natural breathing process, due to which after may be after 1 min or 2 min, i start to feel getting choked and short of breath and then i have to take a long breath to feel some relief. let me see if i can enjoy my breathing.
Could well be true. It seems like a common learning path (to avoid the word mistake ) to go through some willpower. Because we are used to using the will so much, it is only logical this pattern gets into meditation. Not a problem, sooner or later your mind will start to realize it doesn't work.
I think it's important to get some satisfaction out of meditation - if you can't yet get it from the breath, try mindfulness of body, sounds or metta meditation. Or maybe some other object in the present moment - if you can, on the stillness created by the absence of thoughts, but that's not a very stable object. Sometimes it works, though. And other times it's just all hopeless.. and enjoyment is miles away.. Happens.
It's not like there is one trick that always works - not for me anyway. So being a bit creative and learning about how a mind reacts is part of it all. And that's different for everybody, so that's why I and others can give some suggestions and ideas, but only you can really find out why things happen.
Another great object comes to mind: to reflect on your good behavior. If you keep (some of) the precepts, for example. Or you helping others. I'd swear this one is also the topic of one big sutta, but don't ask me to find it.. Maybe someone else knows. It's a little tric I sometimes use in those 'hopeless' moments and it always makes the mind brighter.
Something else is just to think to yourself "happy to be here" or similar words. Doesn't have to be studied, you can just be creative again. It's strange how words can trigger moods, and it often works. It's also a good test to see if you are really happy to be here.. because you are the words will sound right, and otherwise they won't.
Of course, don't try all the techniques at once. I just gave you a shitload because I don't know what'll work for you. Devote some meditation sessions on a technique that appeals to you, to get to know it. I gathered these from all different sources and teachers, or just happened to do them on my own, so I can't really refer to a book or something - sorry. And remember I didn't receive them in one go. Over the years I learned them and learned when and how to use them.
Also, such tricks take you onto a point, but no further. That's the point awareness should take over by itself. With the techniques you can create the right mindset for this to be easy and without much need for using will.
Few questions regarding my meditation - since i cannot go and ask a teacher because of no time for it, so asking here.
1. i sit in full-lotus position, but the problem which i face in my sitting posture is - i am not able to keep my back straight and if i do it, then within 5 min something inside my body starts to feel uncomfortable, then i move my body and i found if my back is not straight, then there is a position where i feel comfortable and i can continue in that position for longer time - but it is not a straight back position. so the breathing usually feels through stomach and not through diaphragm. So the question is - should i try to bear the uncomfort and sit in straight back position - or - is it okay to go to that slight comfortable position with back little bend (though it does not make me fall asleep) ? meaning is keeping back straight important or even if the back is not too straight it is ok?
2. these days when i sit and close my eyes in meditation, what i try is not to focus on anything particular, rather try to be in present moment. when breath comes, i just feel the sensation of breath - not at any particular spot like nose tip etc, but just with the knowing that which tells i am breathing. so i am not using the counting approach with breathing - till now, i have never used this counting approach with breathing. it is not the case that i am mindful of every breath - but since my normal breath pattern is too irregular, meaning, there are long gaps between exalation and the next inhalation, and there is almost no gap between inhalation and exahalation - something like, the moment inhalation completes, exhalation starts and the moment exhalation completes, it usually is a very long period when the next inhalation starts - so during this long gap i think thoughts come up and my mind gets entangled in it - then i remember to be in present moment and then try to bring the mind to the sensations occurring in present moment. So my question is - should i try to count my breaths - or - is it ok if i just feel the sensations of my breathing and try to be in present moment and if thoughts arise, then just try to come back to breath and continue like this.
Is your coccyx getting enough support? Do you need to try a higher meditation cushion? What about half lotus or Burmese? Any difference between which leg is over the other?
Do you think you are deliberately slowing the breath? If so stop, and just breath as you would normally do.
Remember that the meditation is never about thought suppression. It's just the observation of them while freely allowing them to arise and pass. All you have to do is not avoid, run after or attempt to change them.
@misecmisc1 I forgot to ask if your hands/arms are easily settled in your lap or is there a tension to keep them there. Longer body trunk/ to arm lengths can leave your shoulders being pulled forwards against the classic meditation posture. If so, a sweater, folded blanket or a thin cushion on your lap under your hands can help.
Do you need to try a higher meditation cushion? - i am not using any meditation cushion, but usually i sit on a mat or a carpet, which is on the floor to avoid the coldness of the floor by directly sitting on the floor - but is cushion required in full lotus position?
What about half lotus or Burmese? - i have been sitting in meditation for nearly an year now and i started with full lotus and till now i have sit only in full lotus position - never tried any other posture till now except full lotus. sometimes if i remember correctly, it was strange that even though i sat for nearly an hour, yet when my alarm clock rang, i opened my eyes and there was no numbness even in any of the legs - but i think this happened rarely may be only once. But usually after my sitting in full lotus for nearly an hour, i have some amount of numbness in my legs and after my alarm clock rings, then it takes something like 2 min to 3 min to get the numbness out of my legs. so should i try some other posture now or is it ok to continue full lotus? - as in full lotus, my legs usually do not hurt much, rather sometimes due to numbness some hurting starts which sometimes goes away on its own, other times i change the posture of my legs from full lotus to normal cross-leg sitting posture to relax my legs - but this usually happens during the end of my meditation session.
Any difference between which leg is over the other? - when i sit in full lotus position, first i put my left leg over the right leg and then i put my right leg over the raised left leg. if i put first right leg and then left leg over it, it usually makes me feel uncomfortable - don't know why it is so, but may be it is because i am right handed. Then i keep my left hand and then the right hand above it, flat on flat with palms facing upwards of both hands. Then hand position if i try to keep like this <>, it is not very comfortable, so i just keep the palm of the hands flat and let the arms drop parallel to the chest, something like ( ) or L J , hope you get the figure of my arms - usually i just try that there should be no tension in my arms and they should be at ease. So should i try something different here in leg position or arm position?
Do you think you are deliberately slowing the breath? - this i can say that i do not try to control my breath. But i think my normal breathing is irregular in itself. This i have observed. as i said above normally my breathing goes like this - inhalation(much noticeable) followed immediately with exhalation(sometimes so small, that not even noticeable) with no gap almost - then after exhalation, there is a long gap before the next inhalation starts and again after that next inhalation, the next exhalation is both small, unnoticeable and without any gap and this cycle of breathing continues on.
one thing i have observed that during meditation, when i become aware of my breathing, it i think changes the normal breathing to some extent - it is not that i want to control my breathing, but somehow i think the moment my attentions falls on my breathing, it i think gets somewhat controlled.
one very strange thing which is happening is - now many thoughts in my mind during my meditation are about this fact that if i am doing my meditation properly, if i am being mindful and kind to the sensations, sometimes a thought comes and my mind gets entangled in it, then later a thought comes to just be an observer to that thought and then a thought comes that i have to be aware of the sensations of the present moment and then i try to be aware of the sensations of external sounds or body sensations going in the present moment. So i asked this question in previous post - should i focus only on the breath or should i try to be aware of whatever sensations is happening in the present moment?
Hi Misecmisc1, Lots of beginners who have trouble concentrating during meditation often recite a mantra or picture a calm, relaxing place in their minds (ex. A beach) and focus in on the details within that "frame" (the grains of sand, the color of the sky, the reflections in the crest of each small wave). I think the most important part to meditation, like many others have mentioned, is to recognize that thought will always be there and that it is an ephemeral thing. Thoughts will always be walking back and forth in the corridor of consciousness. What we need to do is to learn to hear the sound of these thoughts' footprints as white noise; to transcend the restless mind. Then we appear in neutrality; in being at and existing as 'nothing' we attain 'nothingness' - not necessarily meaning that there are no fruits to our meditation or practice, but in the sense that we transcend the 'monkey mind' and are elevated to a higher state of mind, a state of absence in which there is great fertility and inexhaustible possibility. Of course this is my interpretation and solution. There can be many arguments and disagreements with what I have said. Nevertheless, I hope this helped you a little on your journey to finding your own solution! - Buddhapada
Everyone's body is different, there are no rights & wrongs, just common factors that apply to most meditating practitioners.
Some support under the tailbone is not required but the tilt that it adds to your pelvis may make your back posture easier to maintain.
Numbness means some nerves or blood circulation is being impeded. While this may not affect your meditation, if other postures or a modification to your present one eliminates the numbness, then this would be an act of compassion for your body. This might mean trying the half lotus, Burmese or breaking up your length of sitting time with some walking meditation in between. This is your body experiment to explore.
The various hand positions are mudras that correspond to the body flows. Each has it own subtle effects.
Your first one is for balancing the opposites within whereas the second one aids with openness. If you choose the first one (you might want to try a little height support under the hands on your lap from the sound of it) then put your dominant hand down first and cover it with your less dominant one. If you choose your openness mudra instead, then forget about the height support. Be aware though that the openness mudra is really an open invitation to the universe. The result can sometimes be pretty tumultuous, for you never know what might personally accept this invite.
The breathing can be either a concentration exercise on it's own in which case you just need to focus on the breathing
or
If you prefer your practise to be a meditation then keep your breathing practise as the anchor from where you then view all phenomena.
You also might want to make time to talk to a meditation teacher. If you have time to sit for an hour at a time, perhaps you might be able to squeeze in the time for a teacher interview with questions.
well, i think regarding the hand position, i think you got the figures <> LJ slightly wrong - or may be i have interpreted your post wrongly. to clarify - the above figures are the shapes of my arms of my hands from shoulder to fingers - not the shape of the way the fingers are kept. I think in zen mediation, the fingers of hands are kept in this position <> with thumbs touching on top - so were you referring to this as the first mudra in your post, or your first mudra was referring to the posture of the arms from shoulder to fingers but keeping the palms straight parallel to each other, with left palm below and right palm resting on top of left palm, with both palms facing upwards, something like = in figure for my fingers and my palm.
the zen posture of fingers <> when i keep my fingers like it, i feel uncomfortable. So i always sit with my fingers in = shape, right palm on top of left palm parallel to each other, with both palms facing upwards - and this feels comfortable to me.
so should i sit with fingers in <> posture as in zazen or should i sit as i usually sit with fingers in = posture. when i keep my arms in < > posture, it is slightly uncomfortable and so i keep my hands L J in this posture - means going parallel along the chest, just like dropping from shoulder and adjusting the palm position on my legs so that it is comfortable. So any suggestion regarding the arms position. So to clarify, please explain the finger position and arm position of hands again.
either doing anapanasati i.e. mindfulness of breathing or zazen i.e. just sitting, i felt something like there is 'I' who is either sitting, or observing breath, or trying to observe whatever is happening in present moment - something like there is an I who is knowing whatever is happening in present moment, but still there is a feeling that I am doing it.
but theoretically what i understand is that meditation is not something which is done, rather meditation is what just happens. even dogen said in Genjokoan (i think) that myriad things coming to actualize is awakening and we going to actualize things is delusion. so i was thinking what to do to remove this I in meditation. whatever i do, there is an I doing it, if i try not to think or involve I in the process, then in this trying I gets involved. the same problem of how to do non-doing. i think the answer was we cannot do non-doing. so in a way, nothing can be done and so no point of worrying about it. but then how to keep motivation going on for doing meditation?
so in a way, i have 2 questions: 1. how to remove the feeling of I from meditation experience, as said in above first paragraph. means what should i change in my meditation process? 2. if nothing we can actually do, as both mind and body are not in our control, so how to keep the motivation for meditation going, keeping in mind that currently there is not much suffering in my life.
One way is to keep observing impermanence ie. arising and passing of phenomenon. The feeling of "I am" is not easily eradicated because it lies at the very end of the path. So in Buddhadhamma the achievement if "I AM THAT" is not yet the final goal.
Friend, concerning these five clinging-aggregates described by the Blessed One — i.e., form as a clinging-aggregate... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness as a clinging-aggregate: With regard to these five clinging-aggregates, there is nothing I assume to be self or belonging to self, and yet I am not an arahant. With regard to these five clinging-aggregates, 'I am' has not been overcome, although I don't assume that 'I am this.'"
"Just like a cloth, dirty & stained: Its owners give it over to a washerman, who scrubs it with salt earth or lye or cow-dung and then rinses it in clear water. Now even though the cloth is clean & spotless, it still has a lingering residual scent of salt earth or lye or cow-dung. The washerman gives it to the owners, the owners put it away in a scent-infused wicker hamper, and its lingering residual scent of salt earth, lye, or cow-dung is fully obliterated.
"In the same way, friends, even though a noble disciple has abandoned the five lower fetters, he still has with regard to the five clinging-aggregates a lingering residual 'I am' conceit, an 'I am' desire, an 'I am' obsession. But at a later time he keeps focusing on the phenomena of arising & passing away with regard to the five clinging-aggregates: 'Such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance. Such is feeling... Such is perception... Such are fabrications... Such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.' As he keeps focusing on the arising & passing away of these five clinging-aggregates, the lingering residual 'I am' conceit, 'I am' desire, 'I am' obsession is fully obliterated."
“Once you give up your identification with the body, then you are all the time the Self, or Atman, only. For this, no effort is required. You only have to realize that you are not the body”.
As to the 2nd question, all I can say is that suffering is a great teacher. In the Dhamma, if you don't see suffering you are not learning.
Suffering is a sign that you're out of touch with the truth. Suffering is given to you that you might open your eyes to the truth, that you might understand that there's falsehood somewhere, just as physical pain is given to you so you will understand that there is disease or illness somewhere. Suffering points out that there is falsehood somewhere. Suffering occurs when you clash with reality. When your illusions clash with reality when your falsehoods clash with the truth, then you have suffering. Otherwise there is no suffering.
so in a way, i have 2 questions: 1. how to remove the feeling of I from meditation experience, as said in above first paragraph. means what should i change in my meditation process?
2. if nothing we can actually do, as both mind and body are not in our control, so how to keep the motivation for meditation going, keeping in mind that currently there is not much suffering in my life.
one question regarding sitting posture: if i keep my back(or spine) straight, then when breathing the diaphragm expand and i can feel it - but i cant keep this position for even 1 minute i think - the body moves and i think some thinking is going on at that stage, which changes the posture to not so straight, leading to breath going in stomach instead of diaphragm - so what do you all suggest is it better if i exert myself, try to endure some pain in my back, but keep my back straight and try to breath through diaphragm - or will it be better if my back is not so straight and the breath is going in my stomach? which sitting posture in long run is going to help? please suggest. thanks in advance.
i sit on a cushion which eleviates my body's hip area and then sit normal cross-legged sitting posture (not full-lotus, not half-lotus) and eyes closed and try to do anapanasati meditation by trying to observe natural breathing.
Imagine that your back is a guitar/violin/sitar string...too slack and you are out of tune..too tight and you will feel pain.
The state to aim for is awake and alert but relaxed.
I don't know your age misemisc1 but some people find it easier to sit upright on a chair.
Don't try not to think...that is a sure fire way to increase thinking..
See those thoughts as clouds drifting through the sky of your mind.
If you are finding the bare breath is not holding your attention, try counting the breath from one to ten and then back down again to one.
As Winston Churchill advised..'Keep on buggering on'..
The first 20 years are the worst..
I don't know your age misemisc1 but some people find it easier to sit upright on a chair.
Thanks for your reply @Citta. I am 32 years old currently - married in dec-2009, my daughter was born in 2011 - after 2 months of that accidently struck spirituality - since then for last 2 years nearly, trying to sit daily - though sometimes not able to sit in morning.
If you are finding the bare breath is not holding your attention, try counting the breath from one to ten and then back down again to one.
One more problem with me is that when i try to observe natural breathing, my breath gets manipulated and it feels to me that my natural breathing has turned into controlled breathing. What to do about it?
Moreover, my natural breathing pattern seems to be very irregular - long in-breath followed immediately by a small out-breath(which is even unnoticeable), then followed by a long gap, then a long in-breath followed immediately by a small out-breath(which is even unnoticeable), then followed by a long gap - this pattern keeps on repeating. usually i think between these long gaps, my mind keeps on getting entangled in thoughts. What to do about it? Please suggest.
also, this number counting method somehow does not feel ok to me - as it feels to me that still i will try to think about numbers when i am observing the breath - moreover, i do not focus on nose tip, or some other body part for observing breath, rather i just try to be aware of the feeling which knows breath is coming in and going out, sometimes feeling it at nose, sometimes feeling the chest getting expanded and contracted, but cant be with a single area throughout. any suggestions, please? Thanks in advance.
seems like i have a too much defiled mind, due to which i am not able to meditate, but still i try to sit daily.
We all have problems in this area miscecmis1...
Many people find that when they turn the attention to the breath their breathing changes..
Remember Anapanasati " mindfulness of breathing "..is not a yoga exercise like pranayama..
You are not attempting to control or improve the breath.
You are being attentive to the breath..whatever it is doing.
You cant breath wrongly.
So, turn your attention back again and again to the breath.
When your mind wanders , and it will...gently bring it back to the breath. Over and over.
If I tell you something it is not to discourage you, but its to give you an idea of the patience that is required. I have been doing anapanasati in some form for over 30 years..
Sometimes my mind settles quickly into meditation..its like the meditation has been waiting for me..
At other times 30 minutes goes by and my mind is still grumbling away at something.
Comments
So try a bit, experiment a bit. Learn to solve problems. You also need it for investigation to get a bit deeper, mainly to leave all thoughts behind, sometimes you have to be creative. Don't be scared to make mistakes.
Metta,
Sabre
@Sabre: Thanks for your reply too.
It seems to me that the level of conditioning of my mind is too much. Leave my body, even on little things my mind becomes agitated. For example, in our rented house, in one room we have kept many articles, so that our little daughter(1 year old) does not start to mishandle those articles. so we try that our daughter does not go to that room. i am observing(after the incident happens) the moment i notice that my daughter is trying to go in that room, my mind becomes agitated and instantly i try to react by either getting slightly angry on her - or - trying to forcefully take her away in another room.
another example - my daughter tries to press some key of my laptop, while i am working, then also my mind becomes agitated and reacts to it.
I cannot imagine how deep my mind is conditioned.
After the incident is over and then i think about it, i can recollect anicca, dukkha, anatta - But the question is how to decrease the level of conditioning of my mind, so that at least when such small things occur, my mind does not react immediately. Any suggestions please. Thanks in advance.
Also, I would suggest performing metta, or loving-kindness meditation. This, as a whole, will allow your emotions to shift towards a more positive outlook. It will grace you with further understanding of why you are getting angry, and perhaps you can replace these thoughts with compassionate ones towards yourself.
There is red and light and stop - the concepts of 'red' 'light' and 'stop' are working together in your mind and shaping your physical behaviour.
In the same way - there are many things inside you linked to frustration and anger (in the same way as red light is linked to stop) - when life touches on these issues, the connections fire - you react - then you think and ponder about the minutia of your natural reaction.
The light is just light - the red is just colour - stop is just a concept opposing start.
One way is via meditation - by better understanding yourself, you may be better placed to observe and ponder before you react - then perhaps, you shan't torture yourself so much after the event.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.020.soma.html
It goes into strategies for the removal of distracting thoughts, including "changing the subject" to a more skillful line of thought, and reflecting on the disadvantages of pursuing an unskillful line of thought. There are some parallels with the fourfold application of Right Effort.
As meditation practitioners we want to be able to reach a level of inner peace and equanimity, but we should not try to reach such levels by ignoring are duty as householders. We want to be free of suffering, but we should also try not to be the cause of it.
metta
I'm an Hermeticist not a Buddhist. I have great admiration for Buddhism and often utilise its wisdom when educating my young daughter.
If I may, I'd like to respond to misemisc1, the originator of this discussion. I hope the following has value for others too. :-) (Apologies ... it's quite long!)
The chatter of the mind can be silenced. Indeed, the natural state of the mind is at rest. Achieving this is fairly straight-forward, but it will require some work. :-)
In Hermetics, we approach this problem over three steps, by mastering one step at a time. Here's the first:
1. Thought Observance
This is where you passively observe your thoughts. You detach from them and just watch them ... in the same way that you may watch fish in an aquarium.
That's the overview. Now for the specifics:
i. In the morning, after your breakfast and shower et cetera, enter your meditation space and sit in your preferred posture/asana.
Place a small table in front of you. Or maybe just another chair that's facing you.
On the table, place your timing device. This might be an alarm clock, a digital chime, or even a mobile phone.
Also place a simple notebook on the table, plus a pen.
On a new page in the notebook, write the current date and time. Also write a heading that shows the exericse you're currently working on ('Thought Observance') and the time you'll be practicing it for this morning (e.g. '60 minutes'). Also write the duration of each 'attempt' or 'iteration' (e.g. 'One minute').
ii. Regarding your posture/asana: ensure it's something you can maintain for 60 minutes without pain, pins and needles, discomfort, fidgeting, et cetera.
Suggestion: sit in a chair that's comfortable, but not too cushy. Position your bottom near the front of the chair so that your back is away from the back-rest. This will alleviate tiredness.
Place your feet flat on the floor with your knees at right-angles. Position your feet so that they're in line with your shoulders.
Straighten your spine without stretching it into a rigid state.
Position your head so the jawline is parallel with the floor. Place your hands face-down on your knees, or close to them.
iii. In your hands, hold a simple string of beads or knots. Hold the end of the string between the forefingers and thumbs of both hands.
iv. Set your timing device. For the purpose of this example I'll assume it's a mobile phone. Set a gentle alarm to go off in one hour from now. Then, set a separate timer: a count-down timer. Set it to chime (gently) after one minute, 30 seconds.
v. Start the count-down timer.
vi. Use the first 30 seconds of the count-down as a 'pre-roll'. That is, use it to relax your muscles, close your eyes, and acclimatise to the 'mental interior'. It helps to repeat the phrase 'Every muscle in my body is perfectly at ease', or similar.
Obviously, if 30 seconds is enough of a pre-roll, set it to something longer.
vii. You now have one minute to practice this exercise. Begin. Just watch your thoughts and the behaviour of your mind in a detached way. Don't prevent anything from arising. Just observe everything with perfect passivity.
You'll notice:
* the macro-thoughts ('Hey, that was a great show on the TV last night. I wonder what's gonna happen next week ... ?')
* the micro-thoughts (flashes of memory from any part of your life that just leap up out of nowhere!)
* the low-level, hypnagogic noise (the really crazy chatter and noise: voices of people you've never met, songs that go over and over and over, et cetera. This stuff is 'louder' when you're very tired!).
NOTE: you must observe everything that occurs in your mind, including the hypnagogic noise.
If, during this one minute, you lose the passivity and start actively engaging with the thoughts, move your string by one knot. Bring your consciousness back to passivity. If you lose it again, move the string to the next knot, et cetera.
viii. When your timer chimes after one minute, slowly open your eyes and re-acclimatise your senses to your room.
ix. Count the number of knots you moved. Reach for your pen and note that number in your notebook.
x. Reset your timer for one minute, 30 seconds.
xi. Repeat steps v - x until your alarm goes off, signalling the end of the hour. Make some final notes and observations about your practice. Repeat the whole process for an hour in the evening.
At this stage, you're aiming to master this exercise for one minute only - it might take a week. You'll know you've mastered it when you no longer count any knots on your string (i.e. you've detached your consciousness from your mental processes).
After mastering one minute, advance to one minute, 30 seconds. With the pre-roll, you'll set your count-down timer to two minutes.
Once you've mastered one minute, 30 seconds (another week), advance to two minutes et cetera. Continue adding 30 second increments until you reach 10 minutes. At this point you'll find that your mind is naturally gravitating towards silence when you meditate.
Then it's time for another exercise! :-)
2. Single Pointedness
This takes the mindfulness exericse that you already know well, and applies it to your meditations.
Note: this is not a visualisation exericse. This is about choosing one idea and giving it your full attention.
For example, you might choose a favourite song for your focus. Or doing the dishes. Or playing with your kids. Any idea will do. :-) Just make a point of keeping your attention completely on that exercise.
I'd suggest not focusing on your breath, because you're creating a small schism between the material (your physical breath) and the mental (the exercise you're doing in your mind). Your success will come faster if you focus on something that resides in your mind. :-)
So ... we'll now start again with one minute, plus the pre-roll. We'll repeat all of the above steps, but apply them to this new exercise.
As before, when you can masterfully do this for 10 minutes, you're ready for the final exercise ...
3. Vacancy Of The Mind
Even after mastering the previous exercises, the thought of holding nothing in your mind for a given period can seem daunting! :-) However, it's truly achievable.
The key to mastering this exercise is this: it's just the 'Thought Observance' exercise on steroids! :-) That is, you give your full and complete observation to the activities of your mind. If something emerges, 'stare hard' at it with your consciousness. It will run away! You don't need to push it.
You mind will already be quieter than before, by virtue of your recent successes. So we're just taking it to the next logical level ...
As before, start with one minute. Master that, then advance to one minute, 30 seconds. And so on until you can do this for 30 minutes (yes, it's possible!).
Again, the key is this: just observe. You don't need to do anything as violent as pushing thoughts away. Just expose any emerging thought to the full glare of your consciousness and it will dissolve with minimal effort from you.
Think of it as a cat chasing a mouse back into its hole. Keep the cat there until the mouse has 'dissolved'. :-) If it pokes it nose out again, send the cat right back to the hole instantly!
Do remember to keep notes of your successes as this will inspire you onwards. And if I may, please remember that the human being is composed of mind, soul (character) and physical body. When in balance, we're like an equilateral triangle. But if we devote too much effort to growing one side of the triangle, we can suffer serious negative consequences.
What I'm saying is this: the above exercises help your mind to mature. The 'mental side' of the triangle is therefore developing at a faster rate than the physical and soul sides.
To avoid serious issues associated with prematurely awakened Kundalini energy, please remember that your physical body and soul must mature at the same rate as your mind.
Love and success to you all! :-)
Jason
www.hermeticinitiation.com
One query - i am finding it hard to retain my back straight during my sitting meditation. usually i find some position for my back to be straight when starting meditation, which seems ok to me, means neither too rigid to strain, nor too relax to go from '(' to ')' shape. But may be due to my lack of mindfulness on the body posture, my body slightly drifts and then i have to reshape my body to get back the straight back - usually when i am caught in external world thoughts or i try to be aware of my breathing and in that process, the back moves - also sometimes the back aches slightly so i need to move it. But i usually find that during my whole sitting even till end, i am trying to make my posture correct by straightening my back.
So now my meditation is having this back straightening thoughts, in addition to the normal external world thoughts, coming in my mind - to keep away my mind from focussing on my breathing.
So is straight back so important to keep that we should keep it in our mind throughout our meditation - or - we should try to keep our focus only on breathing and leave the back in whatever position it is in? Your suggestions, please. Thanks in advance.
nothing seems to be happening in my meditation - i know theoretically meditation is letting-go and no one is there to go anywhere - these things are ok - but my question is how to know whether my meditation is on the right track or on the wrong track. what is happening in my meditation is basically nothing - i sit, close my eyes, try to bring focus on nose or face, then feel the breath coming in and going out, this lasts for say 2 to 3 min, then my back aches slightly, i change my posture a little bit, it feels ok, meanwhile a thought comes, my mind gets entangled in it, then a thought comes to focus on my breath, then start focussing on my breath, since the gap between my two breaths is long, so there are long periods of nothing happening, then some thought arises, mind gets entangled and again a thought comes to focus on breath and this thing keeps on repeating.
sometimes i feel that the noise of the outside has got reduced a little bit - but it can also be the case that during those times the outside noise may have actually reduced a little bit.
since i have that constant humming sound in my ears, so there is always some sound available - either external sound coming through ears - or the humming sound of ears (i think this problem is called tinnitius in ears).
so i do not know if my meditation is going in the correct direction - or - i am just sitting and passing my time without doing the meditation properly.
some suggestions please. thanks in advance.
But yeah, I would touch in to my 'heart/mind/citta' every once in awhile.
how to know if there is desire there - if there is any thought, my mind gets entangled in it, then something says i had to watch the breath so i try to move my focus away from the thought and try to watch the breath, so how to know if there is any desire or no desire going on there? may be a silly question, but still asking. please suggest.
@Jeffrey: thanks for your reply too.
If we try to think about meditation practice as this or that, we're creating an image that we're trying to realise, rather than just trusting in the attentiveness of the mind, in mindfulness; letting go of the desire to find or grasp anything. As soon as we think about ourselves, we become a person - somebody - but when we are not thinking, the mind is quite empty and there is no sense of person. There is still consciousness, sensitivity, but it's not seen in terms of being a person, of being a man or a woman; there is just awareness of what is happening - what the feeling is, the mood, the atmosphere that one is experiencing in this moment. We can call this intuitive awareness. It is not programmed and conditioned by thought or memory or perception.
We are renouncing, abandoning, letting go of things. To the worldly mind, it might sound as though we're getting rid of something, or condemning the sense world, the pleasures and the beauty that we can all experience as human beings; rejecting it, because we see it as evil or wrong. But renunciation isn't a moral judgement against anything. Rather, it's a moving away from that which complicates and makes life difficult, towards the ultimate simplicity of pure mindfulness in the present moment; because enlightenment is here and now, the Truth is now. There is not anyone who can become anything, there is not anyone who is born or who will die - there is only this eternal now. This awareness is what we can tune into, as we let go of the appearances and the habitual tendencies.
When we emphasise our personality we create problems, because the personal qualities are different for each one of us. We have our common human problems: old age, sickness and death; all men have certain things in common; all women have certain conditions in common. But then there are certain attitudes, cultural expectations and assumptions, which are conditioned into the mind, instilled into us after we are born. Through mindfulness, we are able to get beyond this conditioning of the mind to the pure consciousness that isn't conditioned, but which is like the background, the emptiness, the blank sheet on which words are written. Our perceptions arise and cease on that blank sheet, that emptiness.
The personality, the self-consciousness, the fears and the desires of the mind are what they are; we are not trying to dismiss them or add to them, or make any problems or difficulties around them. We are willing to let them be what they are. They feel this way, they have this quality; they arise and cease. In that cessation there's the realisation of the peace, the bliss or the serenity of being, and there's no self in it. Everyone has that potential, that ability to realise this. We describe it as seeing the Dhamma, the way it is - it's not a matter of becoming anything at all.
Ajahn Sumedho.
Consciousness, thus unestablished, not proliferating, not performing any function, is released. Owing to its release, it stands still. Owing to its stillness, it is contented. Owing to its contentment, it is not agitated. Not agitated, he (the monk) is totally unbound right within. He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'
"For one knowing in this way, seeing in this way, monk, there is the immediate ending of fermentations."
SN22.55
actually i heard this thing that if the meditation is peaceful, it indicates it is on right track. but there is something i cannot figure out in my meditation - means bluntly speaking - i do not know my meditation is peaceful or not - sounds like i am talking like a complete idiot, but this is the case that i do not know whether my meditation is peaceful or not.
something which i think i can tell about in my meditation as to what is happening is this - i know that i am not sleeping during the time i sit, there are many blank-out durations during which i am not sleeping and just the external sounds are coming or the ringing sound of my ears because of tinnitus problem is there.
1. sometimes i try just to be aware of every moment - but somehow i find that within one to two minutes, something inside me starts to choke and i find i am getting short of breath and need to breath somehow, then the next breath which i take feels like a really long breath - something like if you do not breathe for 2 min, then you feel the need for breathing and then you breath. it is not that i try not to breathe, rather i am trying to be just aware of whatever is happening every moment (may be will is involved here) and then i start feeling choked and lack of breath.
2. one more thing i observed though it rarely happens is that - the ringing sound of tinnitus in ears turns into a sound which is more uniform and dense - though it is difficult to explain - but from that '~' this type of sound it becomes a '-' this type of sound : meaning more dense and uniform without the ups and downs of the normal ringing town and without the period in which there is buzzing sound then silence like tee tee tee.
3. if i do not try to be aware of each moment using my will, then usually i think my mindfulness is so weak that within seconds it looses focus, i start thinking what just happened which is again thoughts of the moments just passed by, so in a way not in the present moment and then usually thoughts arise and mind gets entangled in it, goes some distance with those thoughts and then something says - watch the breath and then i try to be aware of the next breath, but one thing i try is not to breath cautiously, but most of the times while i try to be aware of my natural breathing, somehow my breathing gets affected and becomes cautious breathing.
so do you all kind of get if i am doing something wrong in my meditation? if yes, then please let me know where i am doing my meditation wrongly and also if you all can figure out from the above three points, something regarding whether my meditation is peaceful or not. thanks in advance for helping me. you all can consider me to be a complete stupid person to ask such stupid questions and that i am not able to figure out these things for myself.
Seems like you're doing just fine and mainly just need a bit more time. Those are not stupid questions. If my short replies make it seem like they are, I'm sorry, but I like to brief because there is not much to be said. There are some tricks and techniques people use, but it comes down to being aware of breathing. And if there's a sound, there's a sound. If there's not, there's not.
Depending on your understanding, it may help to get the "I" out of "I am mindful" and the "my" out of "my meditation". Mindfulness arises if you let it. It's not something you can force. So try to let the breath pull you in instead of you focusing on the breath. If you forcefully focus, it's too much effort and the mind doesn't like that; it'll back off. However, if you let the breath come to you, chances are the opposite happens. This is made easier by the suggestion I gave before, to enjoy breathing.
That's all a matter of applying right effort, which is not easy and a learning process in it's own right.
I think it's important to get some satisfaction out of meditation - if you can't yet get it from the breath, try mindfulness of body, sounds or metta meditation. Or maybe some other object in the present moment - if you can, on the stillness created by the absence of thoughts, but that's not a very stable object. Sometimes it works, though. And other times it's just all hopeless.. and enjoyment is miles away.. Happens.
It's not like there is one trick that always works - not for me anyway. So being a bit creative and learning about how a mind reacts is part of it all. And that's different for everybody, so that's why I and others can give some suggestions and ideas, but only you can really find out why things happen.
Something else is just to think to yourself "happy to be here" or similar words. Doesn't have to be studied, you can just be creative again. It's strange how words can trigger moods, and it often works. It's also a good test to see if you are really happy to be here.. because you are the words will sound right, and otherwise they won't.
Of course, don't try all the techniques at once. I just gave you a shitload because I don't know what'll work for you. Devote some meditation sessions on a technique that appeals to you, to get to know it. I gathered these from all different sources and teachers, or just happened to do them on my own, so I can't really refer to a book or something - sorry. And remember I didn't receive them in one go. Over the years I learned them and learned when and how to use them.
Also, such tricks take you onto a point, but no further. That's the point awareness should take over by itself. With the techniques you can create the right mindset for this to be easy and without much need for using will.
Few questions regarding my meditation - since i cannot go and ask a teacher because of no time for it, so asking here.
1. i sit in full-lotus position, but the problem which i face in my sitting posture is - i am not able to keep my back straight and if i do it, then within 5 min something inside my body starts to feel uncomfortable, then i move my body and i found if my back is not straight, then there is a position where i feel comfortable and i can continue in that position for longer time - but it is not a straight back position. so the breathing usually feels through stomach and not through diaphragm. So the question is - should i try to bear the uncomfort and sit in straight back position - or - is it okay to go to that slight comfortable position with back little bend (though it does not make me fall asleep) ? meaning is keeping back straight important or even if the back is not too straight it is ok?
2. these days when i sit and close my eyes in meditation, what i try is not to focus on anything particular, rather try to be in present moment. when breath comes, i just feel the sensation of breath - not at any particular spot like nose tip etc, but just with the knowing that which tells i am breathing. so i am not using the counting approach with breathing - till now, i have never used this counting approach with breathing. it is not the case that i am mindful of every breath - but since my normal breath pattern is too irregular, meaning, there are long gaps between exalation and the next inhalation, and there is almost no gap between inhalation and exahalation - something like, the moment inhalation completes, exhalation starts and the moment exhalation completes, it usually is a very long period when the next inhalation starts - so during this long gap i think thoughts come up and my mind gets entangled in it - then i remember to be in present moment and then try to bring the mind to the sensations occurring in present moment. So my question is - should i try to count my breaths - or - is it ok if i just feel the sensations of my breathing and try to be in present moment and if thoughts arise, then just try to come back to breath and continue like this.
Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
Is your coccyx getting enough support?
Do you need to try a higher meditation cushion?
What about half lotus or Burmese?
Any difference between which leg is over the other?
Do you think you are deliberately slowing the breath?
If so stop, and just breath as you would normally do.
Remember that the meditation is never about thought suppression.
It's just the observation of them while freely allowing them to arise and pass.
All you have to do is not avoid, run after or attempt to change them.
I forgot to ask if your hands/arms are easily settled in your lap or is there a tension to keep them there. Longer body trunk/ to arm lengths can leave your shoulders being pulled forwards against the classic meditation posture. If so, a sweater, folded blanket or a thin cushion on your lap under your hands can help.
now some answers to your queries:
Do you need to try a higher meditation cushion? - i am not using any meditation cushion, but usually i sit on a mat or a carpet, which is on the floor to avoid the coldness of the floor by directly sitting on the floor - but is cushion required in full lotus position?
What about half lotus or Burmese? - i have been sitting in meditation for nearly an year now and i started with full lotus and till now i have sit only in full lotus position - never tried any other posture till now except full lotus. sometimes if i remember correctly, it was strange that even though i sat for nearly an hour, yet when my alarm clock rang, i opened my eyes and there was no numbness even in any of the legs - but i think this happened rarely may be only once. But usually after my sitting in full lotus for nearly an hour, i have some amount of numbness in my legs and after my alarm clock rings, then it takes something like 2 min to 3 min to get the numbness out of my legs. so should i try some other posture now or is it ok to continue full lotus? - as in full lotus, my legs usually do not hurt much, rather sometimes due to numbness some hurting starts which sometimes goes away on its own, other times i change the posture of my legs from full lotus to normal cross-leg sitting posture to relax my legs - but this usually happens during the end of my meditation session.
Any difference between which leg is over the other? - when i sit in full lotus position, first i put my left leg over the right leg and then i put my right leg over the raised left leg. if i put first right leg and then left leg over it, it usually makes me feel uncomfortable - don't know why it is so, but may be it is because i am right handed.
Then i keep my left hand and then the right hand above it, flat on flat with palms facing upwards of both hands. Then hand position if i try to keep like this <>, it is not very comfortable, so i just keep the palm of the hands flat and let the arms drop parallel to the chest, something like ( ) or L J , hope you get the figure of my arms - usually i just try that there should be no tension in my arms and they should be at ease.
So should i try something different here in leg position or arm position?
Do you think you are deliberately slowing the breath? - this i can say that i do not try to control my breath. But i think my normal breathing is irregular in itself. This i have observed. as i said above normally my breathing goes like this - inhalation(much noticeable) followed immediately with exhalation(sometimes so small, that not even noticeable) with no gap almost - then after exhalation, there is a long gap before the next inhalation starts and again after that next inhalation, the next exhalation is both small, unnoticeable and without any gap and this cycle of breathing continues on.
one thing i have observed that during meditation, when i become aware of my breathing, it i think changes the normal breathing to some extent - it is not that i want to control my breathing, but somehow i think the moment my attentions falls on my breathing, it i think gets somewhat controlled.
one very strange thing which is happening is - now many thoughts in my mind during my meditation are about this fact that if i am doing my meditation properly, if i am being mindful and kind to the sensations, sometimes a thought comes and my mind gets entangled in it, then later a thought comes to just be an observer to that thought and then a thought comes that i have to be aware of the sensations of the present moment and then i try to be aware of the sensations of external sounds or body sensations going in the present moment. So i asked this question in previous post - should i focus only on the breath or should i try to be aware of whatever sensations is happening in the present moment?
Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
Lots of beginners who have trouble concentrating during meditation often recite a mantra or picture a calm, relaxing place in their minds (ex. A beach) and focus in on the details within that "frame" (the grains of sand, the color of the sky, the reflections in the crest of each small wave).
I think the most important part to meditation, like many others have mentioned, is to recognize that thought will always be there and that it is an ephemeral thing. Thoughts will always be walking back and forth in the corridor of consciousness. What we need to do is to learn to hear the sound of these thoughts' footprints as white noise; to transcend the restless mind. Then we appear in neutrality; in being at and existing as 'nothing' we attain 'nothingness' - not necessarily meaning that there are no fruits to our meditation or practice, but in the sense that we transcend the 'monkey mind' and are elevated to a higher state of mind, a state of absence in which there is great fertility and inexhaustible possibility.
Of course this is my interpretation and solution. There can be many arguments and disagreements with what I have said. Nevertheless, I hope this helped you a little on your journey to finding your own solution!
- Buddhapada
Everyone's body is different, there are no rights & wrongs, just common factors that apply to most meditating practitioners.
Some support under the tailbone is not required but the tilt that it adds to your pelvis may make your back posture easier to maintain.
Numbness means some nerves or blood circulation is being impeded. While this may not affect your meditation, if other postures or a modification to your present one eliminates the numbness, then this would be an act of compassion for your body. This might mean trying the half lotus, Burmese or breaking up your length of sitting time with some walking meditation in between. This is your body experiment to explore.
The various hand positions are mudras that correspond to the body flows. Each has it own subtle effects.
Your first one is for balancing the opposites within whereas the second one aids with openness. If you choose the first one (you might want to try a little height support under the hands on your lap from the sound of it) then put your dominant hand down first and cover it with your less dominant one.
If you choose your openness mudra instead, then forget about the height support. Be aware though that the openness mudra is really an open invitation to the universe. The result can sometimes be pretty tumultuous, for you never know what might personally accept this invite.
The breathing can be either a concentration exercise on it's own in which case you just need to focus on the breathing
or
If you prefer your practise to be a meditation then keep your breathing practise as the anchor from where you then view all phenomena.
You also might want to make time to talk to a meditation teacher. If you have time to sit for an hour at a time, perhaps you might be able to squeeze in the time for a teacher interview with questions.
Got to run now... Good sitting.
well, i think regarding the hand position, i think you got the figures <> LJ slightly wrong - or may be i have interpreted your post wrongly. to clarify - the above figures are the shapes of my arms of my hands from shoulder to fingers - not the shape of the way the fingers are kept. I think in zen mediation, the fingers of hands are kept in this position <> with thumbs touching on top - so were you referring to this as the first mudra in your post, or your first mudra was referring to the posture of the arms from shoulder to fingers but keeping the palms straight parallel to each other, with left palm below and right palm resting on top of left palm, with both palms facing upwards, something like = in figure for my fingers and my palm.
the zen posture of fingers <> when i keep my fingers like it, i feel uncomfortable. So i always sit with my fingers in = shape, right palm on top of left palm parallel to each other, with both palms facing upwards - and this feels comfortable to me.
so should i sit with fingers in <> posture as in zazen or should i sit as i usually sit with fingers in = posture. when i keep my arms in < > posture, it is slightly uncomfortable and so i keep my hands L J in this posture - means going parallel along the chest, just like dropping from shoulder and adjusting the palm position on my legs so that it is comfortable. So any suggestion regarding the arms position. So to clarify, please explain the finger position and arm position of hands again.
Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
either doing anapanasati i.e. mindfulness of breathing or zazen i.e. just sitting, i felt something like there is 'I' who is either sitting, or observing breath, or trying to observe whatever is happening in present moment - something like there is an I who is knowing whatever is happening in present moment, but still there is a feeling that I am doing it.
but theoretically what i understand is that meditation is not something which is done, rather meditation is what just happens. even dogen said in Genjokoan (i think) that myriad things coming to actualize is awakening and we going to actualize things is delusion. so i was thinking what to do to remove this I in meditation. whatever i do, there is an I doing it, if i try not to think or involve I in the process, then in this trying I gets involved. the same problem of how to do non-doing. i think the answer was we cannot do non-doing. so in a way, nothing can be done and so no point of worrying about it. but then how to keep motivation going on for doing meditation?
so in a way, i have 2 questions:
1. how to remove the feeling of I from meditation experience, as said in above first paragraph. means what should i change in my meditation process?
2. if nothing we can actually do, as both mind and body are not in our control, so how to keep the motivation for meditation going, keeping in mind that currently there is not much suffering in my life.
please suggest. thanks in advance.
contrast with this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_That
Me, me, me? :rolleyes:
What has 'your' suffering got to do with anything in your search for 'no-me'?
http://m.wikihow.com/Cultivate-Compassion-in-Your-Life
:wave:
hi all,
one question regarding sitting posture: if i keep my back(or spine) straight, then when breathing the diaphragm expand and i can feel it - but i cant keep this position for even 1 minute i think - the body moves and i think some thinking is going on at that stage, which changes the posture to not so straight, leading to breath going in stomach instead of diaphragm - so what do you all suggest is it better if i exert myself, try to endure some pain in my back, but keep my back straight and try to breath through diaphragm - or will it be better if my back is not so straight and the breath is going in my stomach? which sitting posture in long run is going to help? please suggest. thanks in advance.
i sit on a cushion which eleviates my body's hip area and then sit normal cross-legged sitting posture (not full-lotus, not half-lotus) and eyes closed and try to do anapanasati meditation by trying to observe natural breathing.
Imagine that your back is a guitar/violin/sitar string...too slack and you are out of tune..too tight and you will feel pain.
The state to aim for is awake and alert but relaxed.
I don't know your age misemisc1 but some people find it easier to sit upright on a chair.
Don't try not to think...that is a sure fire way to increase thinking..
See those thoughts as clouds drifting through the sky of your mind.
If you are finding the bare breath is not holding your attention, try counting the breath from one to ten and then back down again to one.
As Winston Churchill advised..'Keep on buggering on'..
The first 20 years are the worst..
Thanks for your reply @Citta. I am 32 years old currently - married in dec-2009, my daughter was born in 2011 - after 2 months of that accidently struck spirituality - since then for last 2 years nearly, trying to sit daily - though sometimes not able to sit in morning.
One more problem with me is that when i try to observe natural breathing, my breath gets manipulated and it feels to me that my natural breathing has turned into controlled breathing. What to do about it?
Moreover, my natural breathing pattern seems to be very irregular - long in-breath followed immediately by a small out-breath(which is even unnoticeable), then followed by a long gap, then a long in-breath followed immediately by a small out-breath(which is even unnoticeable), then followed by a long gap - this pattern keeps on repeating. usually i think between these long gaps, my mind keeps on getting entangled in thoughts. What to do about it? Please suggest.
also, this number counting method somehow does not feel ok to me - as it feels to me that still i will try to think about numbers when i am observing the breath - moreover, i do not focus on nose tip, or some other body part for observing breath, rather i just try to be aware of the feeling which knows breath is coming in and going out, sometimes feeling it at nose, sometimes feeling the chest getting expanded and contracted, but cant be with a single area throughout. any suggestions, please? Thanks in advance.
seems like i have a too much defiled mind, due to which i am not able to meditate, but still i try to sit daily.
We all have problems in this area miscecmis1...
Many people find that when they turn the attention to the breath their breathing changes..
Remember Anapanasati " mindfulness of breathing "..is not a yoga exercise like pranayama..
You are not attempting to control or improve the breath.
You are being attentive to the breath..whatever it is doing.
You cant breath wrongly.
So, turn your attention back again and again to the breath.
When your mind wanders , and it will...gently bring it back to the breath. Over and over.
If I tell you something it is not to discourage you, but its to give you an idea of the patience that is required. I have been doing anapanasati in some form for over 30 years..
Sometimes my mind settles quickly into meditation..its like the meditation has been waiting for me..
At other times 30 minutes goes by and my mind is still grumbling away at something.
Its not a quick process.