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My mind keeps on chattering in meditation
Comments
You can do it guided, for example here:
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/353.html
Hi All,
Have tried this body scan somewhat. but something weird happens - it is difficult to explain, but let me try to explain it - i am doing meditation with my eyes closed, so when i was trying to do body scan, i felt to be aware of my hands, legs i had to move my eyes downwards even though my eyes are closed - then when i try to be aware of my breath, i feel my eyes were either downwards so i have to bring my eyes in front of my nose area for the feeling of breath. So even though my eyes are closed, how am i knowing my eyes are downward and not straight in front?
Moreover the weird part here is even though my eyes are closed, i see some brightness because of external light of room, then if i wish to still close my eyes(even though they are already closed), i am able to move something internally in my eyes which reduces the visual brightness to some dimness or grayness - so what is happening in this case can someone explain please?
Moreover while i try to bring my eyes to nose area/face area, the awareness of my breath somehow gets lost somewhere. Has someone experienced this type of thing? Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
You are welcome.
In meditation things can happen that have always happened, but you never noticed before. Also the senses may do strange things, because they are not exited as they are usually. Sometimes you may feel like you are floating, or like your head is expanding, you see all kinds of floating lights in the inside of your eye, or whatever strange thing. But all of this is not important, because it is just the senses doing a bit odd.
In meditation we seek peace and kindness, not explanations for what is happening, why it is not working, what you should do, etc. If the mind is like that, you will never be peaceful. The only thing you need to do is let go. These things you mention are not important. May be interesting, you can play with them a while if you want, but it is not worth a lot. So let them go. And in order to do that, you first have to let them be. So don't over-analyze everything that is happening.
Also, maybe give it more than 1 try before consulting others You have the potential to find out for yourself.
With metta,
Sabre
Unfortunately, as i have already said earlier either in this post or some other post, i am not a Buddhist and also a family man with a wife and a child, and working in IT industry, so unfortunately i do not have the time to go for a retreat to find a teacher to help me in my meditation.
i am doing meditation sitting in full-lotus position by observing my natural breath as the object of my meditation.
The problem which i am facing in my meditation is i am not able to be silently aware of the present moment - ironically this should be the most easiest of the thing to do as it does not need to do anything, but i am so stupid to not able to do it.
when today i tried to be silently aware of the present moment in meditation, then i tried to not do anything and tried to just be aware of what is coming in my mind, then what i noticed was - there were just blank moments most of the time - no feeling, nothing - just silence getting interrupted by external noises. So what is i am doing wrong here? Please help me to correct it.
Moreover, how to develop concentration in my meditation? Also how to differentiate that i am practicing insight meditation and not samadhi? Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
Spiny
Being silently aware of the present moment is not the easiest thing to do since the mind has a habit of being active. So you do actually have to do something. You direct your mind to your breath and train to let go of everything else.
Are you mixing up meditation objects? First you say your breath is your object but then say being aware of what comes up in your mind is your goal. Insight meditation involves comparing a memorized idea from buddhism to the current experience to see if it is true. An example of concentration is to think about something that naturally takes your concentration fully like a pretty face. Now try to develop that level of concentration at your breath.
the durations which were blank, were not too long, but short in duration and the silence was getting disturbed by external noises. they were blank in the sense that there were no feelings, nothing, but i think i was aware of it - there were some thoughts arising in those durations though that my head is slightly dropping etc.
Well, your analysis that i was tired seems correct to me as day before yesterday night, my sleep was not complete as it was getting disturbed by my child waking up many times in the night.
So what i am doing wrong and how to rectify it? My mind gets distracted the moment an external noise hits my ears, so there is no concentration in my meditation. So how to have some concentration in my meditation? Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
You're probably doing nothing wrong besides overthinking it. Meditation is a practice. Just like one doesn't become a pro athlete within a few days, meditation also needs to grow. The silences will become longer and longer, but only if you let them. Be at peace with the silence and it will grow. Also, external noises will fade out, but only if you let it happen. You do not need to do anything for it. This will take some practice, it doesn't just happen over night. It may take weeks, months, even years to perfect it. But this doesn't matter, you are already practicing and that's what counts.
Just to be sure, in meditation the concentration is not forced concentration, we let everything develop by itself, learning to make small movements of mind to nudge it in the right direction. Meditation is not doing, it is being.
But these are just my words. You have many questions, but to each one you can find the answer yourself if you just are with whatever arises.
Wish you much meditation joy,
Reflection
@sabre: Thanks for your reply too.
it really is this simple.
You ask this same question at least a dozen times and got the same answer by many people.
Im not pointing this out to tease you or anything like this, just to give you the opportunity to realize what you are doing.
Somehow this answer doesn't satisfy you, so you are holding on to something.
I'm under the impression that this is the main problem of your practice so perhaps we should talk about this.
Perhaps you imagine it should be different?
Perhaps you imagine there is some kind of secret technique to develop concentration other than returning your attention on the object every times you realize you were distracted?
Do you mind sharing why you think the answer doesn't satisfy you?
Hi All,
Actually today i got totally confused at a question which raise in my mind, and i was not able to answer it. you all can consider me to be a complete idiot that even though i have asked this question many times - how to increase my concentration in my meditation - got the answer to let go and just sit with what arises and passes by - still i am not able to work it out practically, even though theoretically i think i understand it.
i am doing meditation on natural breath - so when the breath is arising, i should be aware of it - this is ok. the gaps between two breaths is usually long. So the question is - during this gap, i should be aware of which thing in below things:
1. how i am feeling during this gap?
2. what physical sensation is arising during this gap - for example, today i felt some tickling occurring in the left part of my head?
3. both of the above
4. just sit and pass the time
5. none of the above
if the answer is option 5, then suggest what should be i aware of during the gap between breaths - means on which area i should focus my attention to in this gap duration?
Hope my question is clear. the 4th option i have written above let me clarify what i mean - many people say to just sit and let go - it is ok - but where the attention should be during gap as the breath is not available at this moment.
Even though the above question may seem silly to all of you, but please suggest on it. Thanks in advance.
by doing this, eventually, naturally you get better at it.
you realize you were distracted sooner and sooner and return to your concentration object.
The more time you spend continuously looking at the concentration object the more concentrated you become.
Eventually you will get so good at this that you will catch your mind being distracted the second it is being distracted.
So you end up spending more time focused on the concentration object.
now you have great concentration. you are doing sati meditation, concentration meditation.
what you are trying to do is to steady the mind on a object
Try not paying too much attention to the individual sensations themselves, but conceptualize the breath as a coherent and continuous entity.
so during the gap, keep your attention on the same location as the breath.
if you were doing mahasi vipassana, you would be trying to deconstruct every single tiny sensation that make up the breath.
during the gap you could go in the body and note whatever sensation your mind is going toward.
But you are not doing vipassana.
Stay on the breath.
I really recommend you to try kasina meditation,
http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/102060
even just one time for 10 minutes, so you can easily understand the kind of attention you need to put on the breath.
There is no secret, you just look at one spot and stay on it, return to it whenever you got distracted.
with kasina it is a spot on the wall or a disk or whatever.
with concentration breath meditation the spot is the sensation of the breath.
a tip that work very well for me during breath meditation:
when you start meditating, you can start by looking at the more obvious sensation on your nostril, but after a couple minutes, you can zoom in the sensation and choose a smaller part of the sensation to focus on.
During the whole hour I felt uncomfortable, thoughts kept on coming, I followed some, let go of others and kept on returning to the breath, again, again, and again - for a whole hour. If I were to judge my meditation - which I know you're not meant to - I'd say it was pretty poor. A part of me wishes I'd just stayed in bed for an extra hour.
I find that after periods of not meditating, say a few days, I have a good peaceful meditation session, but if I meditate twice a day, I don't; it's like I really get bored with it. I do look at the boredom; I know I know.
But does anyone else share this experience?
I'll stick with it, I've been doing it for a few years now, but I don't find it easy.
He replied - "so quit meditating for a while, and come back to it when you think you'll feel more comfortable..."
There's nothing wrong with persevering - there's nothing wrong with stopping.
Providing you're clear about your intentions....
In my eyes it takes just a change of perspective, another way of looking at it. Not trying to figure things out and analyzing them, but just being with the moment. If you want to learn anything, this is always the start.
But that's my idea. The only one who can know what to do is misec himself.
With metta,
Sabre
Today some queries arise in my meditation:
1. while trying to observe silence, i am finding it as totally blank - so what to observe here? moreover, how to know if my mind is really observing or taking a small sleep in that duration?
2. a concern is rising in my mind, while trying to be aware of present moment - currently what i am observing is - the present moment, or feeling the moment just passed by so not in present moment? How to know this thing?
3. As far as hindrances are concerned, it seems restlessness is there as the doer part of my mind simply keep on being active too much and the knower part is not getting active. So how to make the knower part more active to observe, rather than doer part disturbing the natural breath?
Anyone having faced the above issues in their meditation, please suggest. Thanks in advance.
.....
When you don't find anything, that not-finding is finding emptiness.
When you don't see anything, that not-seeing is seeing emptiness.
- Loppon Namdrol"
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/07/see-emptiness.html?m=0
Whatever arises is the present moment. Including the confusion of thoughts. But. Even so there is no true present moment.
So personally i'd learn to ride the transcience of phenomena. Really see clearly into the details of phenomena.
Learning how to relax is important when the mind is busy. Learning how to focus and concentrate when the mind is tired. When both are in union them just relaxed focus. From there investigate phenomena.
Sabre
With Metta.
if it's totlly blank, breathe and accept. Notice blank-ness, and let it be.... Why need to know?
every moment is present moment. Let it be.... Knower and doer are same.
let them be friends. Knower can watch doer, and doer can watch knower.....they are the same awareness.
You really do think far too much.
@boats: thanks for your reply too. actually the questions which i have raised are for the gap period in between two breaths. usually the gap period in my two consecutive breaths is slightly long. so when that gap period is there, then what should i do - this is what i have referred to as silence in the above 3 queries - during this gap period, since there is no breathing happening, so focussing on breathing cant be done, so the question arises what to focus on in silence as there is nothing there?
moreover if we try to breath, then it usually becomes cautious breathing, and i want to observe just natural breathing.
i read the first few chapters of Mindfulness, Bliss and beyond by Ajahn Brahm, so tried to figure out the hindrances in my meditation, which i listed above. my mind keeps on thinking - this is my basic problem. the doer simply do not stop doing. so i raised this question how to make the knower more active and doer less active?
One more query: most of the time when i am having attention on breath and gap between breaths, i think it is forced attention out of will, rather than the attention coming naturally - so is this ok?
Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
attention, is attention.
if you bring attention to something, you are making yourself pay attention, but it isn't forced.... because attention coming naturally is the same thing.
you can be attentive, or inattentive.
inattentive is careless.
attentive is mindful.
Try to figure out what is happening here. I think you can do that yourself.
With metta,
Sabre
Stop trying so hard.
If you sense it, you sense it.
If you don't sense it, you don't sense it.
Heart beats whether you sense it or not.
you're here, aren't you?
your mind has a right to flutter.
that is what a mind does.
just
surrender
one question: these days i am observing that the moment i try to focus on my breath in meditation, usually saliva comes in my mouth - even though i drink sufficient water before sitting in meditation, still saliva is coming in my mouth and then taking it in disturbs the meditation.
another question: also that the ear ringing (may be tinnitus problem) starts at a particular sitting position with back straight and head straight and also this is arising when i try to focus on the breath.
does anyone has faced such things in their meditation and can please suggest how to get rid of these things. thanks in advance.
For the saliva, I'm not sure but how do you position your tongue? I usually have the tip of mine right in the corner of my front tooth and my palate (yeah, for some reason where most of us have two front teeth, I have one big one, lol) and I don't get that problem.
you disturb it.
all these things can be great objects of interest if you bring such attitude, note it, be with it then go back to the breath when you're done.
all the difficulty in meditation is in the attitude we bring to it.
even if we cannot imagine anything then difficulty we must sit through it because it is through the rough that we learn the most.
:bowdown:
@ourself: i dont think i am placing my tongue in any special position.
Even very annoying things the mind can leave behind if you don't fight them. Once I came out of meditation, I noticed I drooled all over myself.. But I've meditated not just with saliva or ear noise, but also through noisy neighbours & their music, physical problems/ & pains. The amazing thing is, you can let it all go and you won't hear or feel it anymore, just like you won't smell or see anything in meditation. But this will only happen if you stop the fight with those things.
By the way, to stop saliva from accumulating it can be useful to straighten your head if you didn't do already. If your head is hanging forward, saliva can't get to the troath.
With metta,
Sabre
is there anything wrong with this laying posture? can someone please suggest why that heavy head feeling is coming while trying to do body scan just before going to sleep in night. thanks in advance.
This may sound dumb but for the sleepy feeling, have you tried starting with your feet and working up to your head?
Perhaps stop meditating for say 1 month but instead do other activities that involve motor function and thought - for example, the planting season is upon us - why dont you start a vegetable patch and really take your time to observe everything that happens when you engage in that activity and concentrate on your breath while undertaking it... you may be able to isolate various facets of yourself or your actions or the environment which may then assist when you undertake the same exercise without the motor function.
I suspect that you are aiming to achieve the impossible with your meditation...
I totally agree your reply that everyday mindfulness when working/eating etc is very, very helpful indeed, and it might be what misc needs, BUT it won't be able to replace more silent sitting/walking practice.
To advice someone to stop meditating just because they encounter some problems, is -with all respect- a silly advice. Problems are there to overcome, not to run away from. Overcoming the problems (buddha called them hindrances) is all meditation is about; in fact it is in a sense Buddhist practice is all about. It is like saying to someone who is training for the marathon and can't do 42km yet, to just stop running for a while. That won't help him in any way to get better at running, it will probably even make him worse.
Meditation is just like that. If you don't practice it, it has a high potential to deteriorate. It needs a solid everyday practice to really take off. You could skip a day or two or whatever, but just taking a holiday from meditation has the potential to get you back to square one. But if you practice well, you might soon be able to do 42km. With or without saliva..
With metta,
Sabre