why do you have a job

bookworm

Do you really need to make money? Yes with money you can buy your own food money will get you a home of your own, but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment, all its going to do is waste your precious time as a human being.

Bunks

bookworm said:

Do you really need to make money? Yes with money you can buy your own food money will get you a home of your own, but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment, all its going to do is waste your precious time as a human being.

I disagree.

All experiences (including those one has at work) are a chance to learn and practice the dhamma.

Practice makes perfect

Beej

theres nothing wrong with money. there's something wrong with being attatched to it, though. or having an aversion to it. it just a thing. and, in most modern societies its not even an actual physical thing, but its just a concept represented by numbers in an account. no big deal. its a game we play. a conceptual game. you don't want to play the game? i have no problem with that.

David

I used to feel that way when I was stuck in a job I didn't really care about.

I think it comes down to Right Livelihood.

how

Do your parents know of your plans to live with them forever?

bookworm

how said:

Do your parents know of your plans to live with them forever?

haha very funny you're quite the joker I never said anything about living with parents Buddhist go forth into homelessness and leave their friends and family and renounce the world

robot

bookworm said:

how said:

Do your parents know of your plans to live with them forever?

haha very funny you're quite the joker I never said anything about living with parents Buddhist go forth into homelessness and leave their friends and family and renounce the world

Have you met any Buddhists?

vinlyn

Yeah...very few Buddhists actually do that.

Bunks

bookworm said:

how said:

Do your parents know of your plans to live with them forever?

haha very funny you're quite the joker I never said anything about living with parents Buddhist go forth into homelessness and leave their friends and family and renounce the world

Have you gone forth into homelessness yet @bookworm?

lobster

but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment

I am enlightened and I say it is.

Chaz

lobster said:

I am enlightened

I feel the urge .....

The urge to purge!

Gui

Crustaceous Osteen!

lobster said:

but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment

I am enlightened and I say it is.

Chaz

I have a job for two reasons:
1.) Mortgage
2.) Sports car

riverflow

bookworm said:

Do you really need to make money? Yes with money you can buy your own food money will get you a home of your own, but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment, all its going to do is waste your precious time as a human being.

Where will you find enlightenment if it isn't with what you are doing (whatever it may be) right here and now? Dividing your own experience into "things that will bring enlightenment" and "things that do not bring me enlightenment" is a sure way to put off enlightenment.

Do you know what they do in monasteries? They cook, wash dishes, clean toilets. These are not pesky distractions away from practice-- they ARE practice! Insight into reality is not to be found by running away from the world but in the very midst of it.

bookworm

riverflow said:

bookworm said:

Do you really need to make money? Yes with money you can buy your own food money will get you a home of your own, but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment, all its going to do is waste your precious time as a human being.

Where will you find enlightenment if it isn't with what you are doing (whatever it may be) right here and now? Dividing your own experience into "things that will bring enlightenment" and "things that do not bring me enlightenment" is a sure way to put off enlightenment.

Do you know what they do in monasteries? They cook, wash dishes, clean toilets. These are not pesky distractions away from practice-- they ARE practice! Insight into reality is not to be found by running away from the world but in the very midst of it.

Oh wow thanks commenting @riverflow i learned something new thanks to you

riverflow

Oh, lovely @bookworm ! Thank you for your kind comment. _/\_

In the light of mindfulness, everything and anything can be a vehicle for insight.

Here's a lovely summation:

There’s a famous Zen story that goes:


A monk told Joshu, “I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me.”
Joshu asked, “Have you eaten your rice porridge?
The monk replied, “I have eaten.”
Joshu said, “Then you had better wash your bowl.”
At that moment the monk was enlightened.

I’m not going to try to explain that story, as I am far from enlightened enough to understand it. Instead, I’d like to focus the wonderful simplicity of that advice:

Have you eaten your rice porridge? Then you had better wash your bowl.

This is something I think of every time I eat, and in fact whenever I’m done doing something. “Done eating? Then wash your bowl.”

There is something profound and yet minimalist about this advice. It’s: don’t get your head caught up in all this thinking about the meaning of life … instead, just do. Just wash your bowl. And in the washing, you’ll find all you need.

I’ve found this to be true. I literally wash my bowl after eating, slowly and with mindfulness. It’s satisfying, and takes no money and little resources.

When I take a shower, I hand wash my dirty clothes (if they’re dirty), wring them out, hang them to dry. When I change, I carefully put away the clothes I’ve changed out of. When I prepare food, I wipe the counter and put away the ingredients. At least I try to – I don’t claim to be perfect.

Remembering to do these things when we’re done with the activity isn’t just about neatness. It’s about mindfulness, about completing what we started, about being present in all we do instead of rushing to the next activity.

Wash your bowl, with care and joy.

From HERE

genkaku

There is the idealism of wanting to be enlightened.
There is the idealism of imagining you are not.

Which is the more cumbersome weight -- money or idealism?
My money is on idealism.

seeker242

riverflow said:

bookworm said:

Do you really need to make money? Yes with money you can buy your own food money will get you a home of your own, but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment, all its going to do is waste your precious time as a human being.

Where will you find enlightenment if it isn't with what you are doing (whatever it may be) right here and now? Dividing your own experience into "things that will bring enlightenment" and "things that do not bring me enlightenment" is a sure way to put off enlightenment.

But at the same time, the Buddha did divide things up like that! If you think about it, that's what laypersons precepts are for, that's what monks precepts are for.

:om:

genkaku

Tentatively -- i.e. emotionally and intellectually -- things are separate and distinct. Suggesting otherwise is just blowing smoke.

But there is something to be said for settling to your own satisfaction matters that are tentative.

cptshrk

Because society refuses to let me live for free! It ain't fair... :vimp:

Jason

bookworm said:

Do you really need to make money? Yes with money you can buy your own food money will get you a home of your own, but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment, all its going to do is waste your precious time as a human being.

No, but under the present mode of production, most of us are coerced to surrender our labour-power in exchange for wages that we then in turn must exchange for our means of subsistence. Nevertheless, while I think this can make the eightfold path more difficult for us to follow since much of our time is devoted to working and filled with the added mental and physical stresses of that work, one can live a worldly life and still have a fruitful practice. The two are not mutually exclusive.

charirama

In a society where the needs of the people are the concern rather than the needs of the economy, no jobs would be a good thing because it would mean all the work and necessary chores have been done. This would leave more time for family, contemplation and personal growth.

Today's society, however, seems to prioritize the economy over everything else even if it means people have to work harder for less pay at jobs that don't yet exist. The American President has been talking about how important it is to create jobs yet one of the main areas of dissatisfaction among people in the US is their jobs.

UK_NMA

If family members rely on the money you earn from working to pay bills and put food on the table, would giving up work be lacking in compassion towards your family? Also, if you're an employer would giving up work be lacking in compassion towards your employees?

I can see from the point of view of someone who has no dependants but if you have surely doing this be a selfish act?

Is there a way to reconcile this?

charirama

"Is there a way to reconcile this?"

There is the Middle Path.

Enigma

There is a Zen proverb attributed to the Japanese poet Matsuo Bashō (松尾芭蕉) who lived during the Edo period.

开悟之前，砍柴，挑水；
开悟之后，砍柴，挑水。

Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water.
After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water.

DaltheJigsaw

It could! I have heard of many stories of regular individuals/monks and other people who have reached inner understanding/enlightenment. Everyone is different and it really does depend on each person. I like work, as it builds my character, skills and ability to understand myself and my surroundings.

bookworm

You're absolutely right @LeonBasin everyone is different after all there is no one true path to enlightenment

FairyFeller

My reason for having a job is to provide enough money to feed and provide a warm safe environment for The Missus who is disabled and unable to do so for herself (and also for various rescue animals who we're lucky to have living with us).

My aim in life is to live it and to attain enlightenment would just be a bonus.

Hawkins

I understand what you mean, OP.

I believe that there are certain "jobs" that are needed, whether its working for local businesses that make you happy, or giving knowledge of a certain skill set or ability you have in trade for money.

The difference between working lightly and happily with your own trade or for local small businesses, versus big paying jobs that suck your life away, cubical, and corporations is YOUR lifestyle. Some people feel the need to own fancy cars, big homes, and a bunch of sh** they don't actually need. But if you live minimalist, on a good budget, with little to preferably no debt, you can do what you enjoy without worrying too much about money.

So OP, I disagree to live without any form of work, however you may live with a form of work that can be considered play.. if you pull your cards right.

David

Work isn't just something we do, it is what we are.

If we enjoy what we are, we will enjoy the work involved.

DaftChris

I can't think of an insightful answer, so here is a vaguely related music video.

bookworm

Alright alright i get it, how do you close this thread?

footiam

bookworm said:

Do you really need to make money? Yes with money you can buy your own food money will get you a home of your own, but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment, all its going to do is waste your precious time as a human being.

It is the money that matters but the food. You won't get enlightened without food. That would be like a guitar with loose strings. It can't produce beautiful music.

cvalue

I must have a job so I can think of Buddha. Without a job, my first priority would be about where I get my next meal from, where to find money to buy medicine, how I can afford to fix the leaky roof, my parents are in financial distress how can I help them? Thanks to my job, all these money issues go away so I can devote my extra time to Buddha.

bookworm

You're absolutely right @cvalue and @footiam money buys food and without the right food then we will be to weak to study and practice the Dharma

Sabre

Well, people jump onto this (with some funny jokes, thanks for that), and in a way rightly so, but there is also something to say for what @bookworm is getting at. The Buddha kept his life as simple as possible, not only because it was more conducive toward enlightenment, but I think also as a result of it. It's something I really feel he was sort of pushed into, because having a cluttered up life just didn't work for him.

Because people may say we need to work for food/family, but if I look around I see many people not only work for that, but also for a lot of things I feel you don't really need. Ice creams, holidays, bigger homes, cigarettes, a marriage, to be able to support kids later, etc. and let's not forget status and career itself. Is enlightenment really in those things or does enlightenment drive you away from those things? Personally I have the feeling it is the latter one. Other people have those feelings too and those are the ones becoming monks/nuns. I'm not saying those people are better or anything, just that for them a more simple lifestyle is what works best.

For me a big part of Buddhism is daring to ask questions and daring to look at all aspects of our lives. I looked at every aspect and came to the conclusion I don't see much future in myself following my career path and would like to try what it's like living without it. I can see myself getting very sad if I wouldn't have been able to do so.

This is what the Buddha supposedly said:

"Before my Awakening, when I was still an unawakened Bodhisatta, the thought occurred to me: 'The household life is crowded, a dusty road. Life gone forth is the open air. It isn't easy, living in a home, to lead the holy life that is totally perfect, totally pure, a polished shell. What if I, having shaved off my hair & beard and putting on the ochre robe, were to go forth from the home life into homelessness?'

Metta to all lay people, monks/nuns and everything in between!

Niesje

I feel that the work that I do is my personal path to enlightenment. From my experience taking care of the elderly and disabled in nursing homes, to now being an EMT, I help people at the worst moments of their lives. When everything seems to be going wrong, I am given this opportunity to provide them with hope. What they dont realize is how much they teach me and enrich my life. That's why I need to work. To keep in touch with not only the suffering in the world, but the idea that there are so many people that dedicate themselves to easing that suffering.

ThailandTom

bookworm said:

Do you really need to make money? Yes with money you can buy your own food money will get you a home of your own, but having a job and making money is not going to help you attain enlightenment, all its going to do is waste your precious time as a human being.

Do you have a job?