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People wonder why I get offended at sexist comments (except @Chaz, he doesn't care)
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It's a variation on homophobia really.
some can't. Ever heard of a strap-on?
I had a business travelling companion who is a lesbian. On biztrips she liked to go to breastrants like Hooters, to scope the girls waiting tables. Turns out we had very similar tastes. I was already at an age where such things werent all that big a deal, but she'd ask what i thought of this girl or that.....
We had a lot of fun.
How typically crass.
Crass? I beg your pardon. I know a couple lesbian couples who employ them and theres nothing wrong or crass about it. Its just a sex toy and lots of people use them. In this case they like the shape, size and motion.
But i suppose the idea of having a mature discussion of sex toys is out of the question.
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I'm not interested or referring to your own acquaintances or experience. The comment came across as dismissive and belittling.
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Not at all. Except it's off-topic here. Please feel free to start a new thread in the Members-Only' forum.
Disgusting. Don't make me whip out my ninja equanimity skillz on you.
Well, that wasn't my intention, so maybe you should back off and don't be so sensitive.
Dismissive and belittling talk has been a mainstay on this thread and others for a while.
Actually, I think the use of such "devices" is incredibly liberating for some women. They can have many of the sensations associated with penile insertion, but don't have to have a male around to get it. Not for everyone, of course, but I think it would sexist on my part to deny them that, and prudish on the part of some others.
Well, I'm not the one who brought up lesbians going without "d*ck" in the first place. That was dismissive and belittling and I can't help but wonder if such a discussion ever happened in the first place. I know a lot of men. in 50 years I've never heard that comment once. I don't even know where you'd find a man like that and I've known more than my fair share of knuckle-draggers in my day.
And yeah, starting a thread entitled, "How Can Lesbians Go Without D*ck" will last how long? Ten minutes?
It's not disgusting. It's a toy for cryin' out loud! Some people, in fact a lot of people, find those things kinda fun. Now, I've never used one or had one used on me - I draw the line elsewhere - but no judgement on those that do.
Is it ironic that the sexism thread is now about dick?
Toy/fake or otherwise.
No the word is "d*ck".
For some reason, I'm reminded of the lyrics to Frank Zappa's "Dinah Mo Hum".
"Is that a real poncho, or is that a Sears poncho"
Don't ask me why.
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And maybe you should take a step back, realise how offensive such a comment is in a thread, where the subject is sexism and how women are constantly being put second-place to men, and apologise for your insensitivity.
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Diddums. Hurt feelings? Get over it. We have to, apparently....
priojecting, much?
You think so, do you?
Why do 'some men' seem to think that women need fulfilment by having a male substitute to rely on for sexual gratification? Talk about egotism....
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Context....
That was dismissive and belittling
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To you, perhaps....
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...But you were quite happy to perpetuate it, though...
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I dunno. You backing off now?
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Toy/fake or otherwise.
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Yes, funny how Chaz has made this thread all about his male sensitivities, isn't it?
And if you find that offensive @Chaz, then I'm sorry, but if you're going to act like a dick, be prepared to be treated like one.
Don't worry abut that. When it comes to forums, i never take anything personally....even if its meant to be personal.
(Lord Voldemort's voice over) LIESSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Diddums. OMG, I love British slang, I'll be entertained all evening now!
Ah, the poetic beauty of British slang, music to the ears....
Are you aware, Chaz, that if African Americans had limited themselves to "changing themselves" (as if they needed changing! What had they done wrong, to come to be discriminated against?), they would still be drinking from separate drinking fountains, and wouldn't be allowed to sit at lunch counters? Mobilizing to raise public awareness and bring about social change isn't "complaining". It's taking compassionate action.
The Buddha taught that to remain silent in the presence of wrong-doing is "wrong speech". Speaking out and working to end suffering for sentient beings, as marginalized populations have done, including women, is compassion in action.
Working for universal suffrage, for example, or for the right of women and people of color to enroll in advanced degree programs in the sciences, is not "the flip side of misogyny". It's not depriving others of anything, or blaming others, or vilifying others. It's simply righting a wrong. Who in our day and age could have a problem with that?
I'm not really touching the sex toy commentary except to say that while I'm not really offended by the original inflammatory comment, I know very few lesbians who associate their dildos with the concept of an actual penis, which seemed to be the implication there. Probably hard to understand for a guy, but fact nonetheless. So, yeah, lots of women live without d*ck, lol.
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Well put. It's that implication that I found crass and inappropriate.
Never knew I had anything in common with Napoleon until I read:
~ Napoleon
There is a difference between ignorance and sexism, between being crass and not being given the benefit of the doubt.
When I've figured out precisely what you mean, and your intended target, I'll get back to you.
I guess I must be included in there somewhere - which is absolutely, perfectly okay...
I WAS thinking to myself last night "If this thread has descended into point-scoring, tit-for-tat, bitching and backbiting, then its purpose is defeated, and I might as well close it."
I would rather not close it, of course, because I believe that even in the low points, there is much to gather, glean and learn.
Guilty as charged. It's a topic about which I am particularly emotive. A chink in my Dharma-Armour, if you will, just as mental illness is a focal point to you, @SarahT.... and all power to that, might I add....
(Received my "Be a Dementia Friend" gift package yesterday....)
This thread has really helped me realize some of the issues I've had with feminism. What I'd say about feminism is, that it just makes me feel bad without presenting me with any solutions whatsoever. Maybe instead of trying to patch the holes in our cultures we should just start anew? Like a super egalitarian non-violent non-cooperation movement? I could do that... I think.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by 'just start anew'...?
And what does 'patching holes in our cultures' entail, exactly?
Really, I'm interested to know your opinion here.
Thanks.
What I meant is that trying to change people in our cultures may be difficult and maybe a better idea would be to just ditch our cultures. Maybe this is not the best option, but starting a new movement which builds up its own norms instead of trying to alter the norms of existing cultures might be easier. And possibly in vain... we don't in a vacuum, do we? Maybe just that we have to reject a lot to achieve true equality? Maybe to stop sexualizing men and women we would have to ditch our notions of beauty? No make-up, pretty, but non-revealing clothing, no clothing appropriate for specific genders? That is sort of what I mean. Maybe equality is not possible, if we do not change so much of the stuff we do, that we might as well ditch it all and come up with safer stuff to do. Just some ideas, not sure about them, but hey. ^^
I need you to go away and think about what you have just written, because what you propose is not unifying but separatist, and would simply lead to more 'us and them'.
I also need you to research Mysoginy its history (since mankind began, virtually) and understand that such sexism has nothing whatsoever to do with a woman's appearance.
Suggesting we resort to wearing no make up, and adopt pretty but non-revealing clothing is sexist in and of itself.
It requires yet again, that women change their behaviour, in order to accommodate the opinions of others.
What clothing are you thinking is appropriate for specific genders?
Women can and do wear trousers.
Some men wear skirts/robes (which, when you consider the male inconvenience of external appendages, and how they need to be tucked away and accommodated in restrictive clothing, is eminently sensible!)
Part of the problem in the US, why we have so many challenges, (not that they are exclusive to us, of course) is because of our melting pot nature, we don't have one set culture. We have many, many of them. The world has become more like that as well, but everyone having their own culture and coming to live together is bound to create challenges. There is no culture to erase, because we don't live under one culture anymore.
I don't believe much in attempting to set out to change the world, or an entire group of people. I do believe in taking opportunities as they present to have a skillful discussion with people where common ground might be reached. When MN was fighting a gay marriage ban in our constitution a couple years ago, I talked to people and called them and witnessed that change first hand. With every person? Of course not. But with a few. Every person who has a lightbulb moment and it changes their path of thinking is worth the effort. That doesn't mean it is ideal for the average person to take on the whole of a group of people (ie sexist men) and try to change them. Just watch for an opportunity within your family or circle of friends and strike up skillful conversation when you can.
@federica Oh dear, we have probably misunderstood each other quite severely.
Firstly, my suggestions may lead to more "us and them", but feminism leads to that as well. This is tough and I have no answers.
Sexism may have little do to with a woman's (or anyone's appearance), but the way you conform to the cultural standards does. Why should women doll themselves up with make-up? Do you really feel so insecure about yourself? Aren't you doing it just because society says that you are much prettier this way and that this is just what women do? It just seems degrading to me. Using make-up in a culture which does not objectify women as sexual playtoys (based mostly on a standard of beauty which can only be achieved by make-up and such) might be fine, but that's what I was saying. Maybe you can't use make-up in our culture, since you would always run into this, although you yourself may only do it "just because" and feel nothing much of it, still there will be people who see you as a person who is dolling themself up for them, to be sexy, because that's what she's good for. So maybe not doing it is the answer. That was my suggestion. I do not know, I only suggest.
Also how is that suggestion sexist? Sexism is prejudice against a sex, isn't it? There's nothnig wrong with a woman's body, but do you need everyone to look at your cleavage? Isn't that what the culture which objectifies you wants from you? Again, show your cleavage in a culture not filled with people who are preoccupied with sex, but all I am saying is that maybe in this culture, you can't wear such things casually. That's all.
I am a gay male and see how guys around me objectify themselves, watch the movie The Adonis Factor, it deals with our scenes and how shallow we can be. It's no different for guys. How am I sexist? I don't see it.
I do not want women to accomodate their behaviour to the opinions of others, precisely the opposite. I hope that is clear from what I wrote in this post.
Your last section is a misunderstanding. I was saying, that you do not need to wear special clothing when you are a woman or a man, yet we seem to do in our cultures. Why? Doesn't it make it more difficult? I'd be happy to wear a nice robe, thank you very much. And I'd like women to go and enjoy some t-shirts not cut in such a way, that their breasts are highlighted, which again in our culture is a very sexualized thing. Sure, you can feel about it differently yourself, but my point is that most people don't and as long as you do it, there will be misunderstanding. Better not do it, strive for change, then do it as much as you like, since things have changed.
I hope I expressed myself more clearly, I am sorry for representing my ideas poorly. :disappointed:
The sad thing is, people who make jokes about women who can't live without dicks in a thread about sexism likely don't even realize how offensive such comments can be. I hope that one day, though, after numerous conversations like this, they'll be able to look back and, rather than tell women to back off and not to be so sensitive, they'll say, "You're right. I'm sorry. The reality that you live in is different than mine; and I was blind to the fact that you often face challenges that I don't because what you call 'privilege' manifests itself as a lack of discrimination that isn't always readily apparent until we take a broader look at society as a whole."
Speaking of which, I saw this today on Facebook and thought it was rather relevant: If Hermione Were The Main Character In “Harry Potter”: Hermione Granger and the Goddamn Patriarchy.
Very nice Fed.
Maybe YOU .......
Over the years there have been many observations that America really isn't a melting pot, but rather a mixing bowl. Of course, many nations have neither and are far more homogeneous than are we.
I mention that because we, in the U.S., actually seem to strive to emphasize our heterogeneous natures. Unlike a melting pot where things literally melt together and become one consistency, we strive to be more like the salad where you notice the lettuce, you notice the other veggies, you notice the bacon bits, etc. And so, life in the U.S. is very often divided by the characteristics of people. We don't have a golfer's association, we have a PGA and an LPGA. We have gay bars and straight bars (and at least when I used to hit the bars, lesbians were nowhere to be seen). In 1998 I remember going to see "How Stella Got Her Groove Back", and when I mentioned it at work in the lounge, most of the people said, "But that's Black movie". We have (among other political groups) Republicans and Democrats, but oops, even the Republicans are split into warring factions.
So as we attempt (as a nation) to keep our group identities, it's not too surprising that one group is ______ist toward another group. I'm not saying it's good (in fact it's bad), but that is quite natural.
There is one thing happening in the United States which I see as being very helpful to the overall situation of "ists". (Or at least I see it here in the western U.S.). A "to each his (or her) own" attitude. "Live and let live".
The question is -- how does that happen? And I think that Karasti hit the nail on the head. Looking for opportunities to change perceptions, one person and one perception at a time.
Another question is, which of 2 approaches work best, or does change require both? What I mean is, which approach makes more progress -- Jesse Jackson being the Black candidate for President, or Barack Obama being a candidate for President who just happens to be Black. Helen Reddy singing, "I am woman, hear me roar", or being a CEO of a major corporation who approaches it as "I just happen to be a woman".
And that brought me back to a place I've been visiting a lot lately -- a place where things are not either/or.
People need to change their behaviour. Sexism works both ways.
Mothers teach their sons and daughters to be sexist as much as fathers do.
Fathers and mothers teach their sons and daughters how to behave as women and men are 'expected to'.
No, I think you're expressing your ideas clearly. I think they just go to show how many men (gay or straight) don't fully understand the issue. In essence, what you're saying is, don't do things that may attract attention from men. If you wear make-up and revealing clothes, you're basically asking for harassment, so just don't do it.
What Fede and others are saying is, as a woman they should be able to wear whatever they want and not be harassed, sexually assaulted, paid less than men, etc. In other words, you're suggesting women change how they look and present themselves rather than men change their behaviour, which is a form of sexism and part of what this thread is about. This doesn't mean, of course, that you're overtly sexist, just that you're influenced by the same patriarchal attitudes that give rise to unequal treatment in the first place. I know you don't mean it that way, but it's the implication of what you're saying.
@jason Please read my post again and understand what i am saying:
In our culture, you can't wear whatever you want, you can't behave however you want etc. without there being conseuqences, which are quite awful. so maybe if you don't participate in this culture and try to change it, you would then be able to do the stuff you want to do. If you do it simultaneously with the change, problems are only going to accumulate. It's similar to buying a TV, when you are really hungry. Sure, a TV is nice, but it sure is not going to solve your problems. Wearing whatever you like is nice, but can you do so without actually sexualizing yourself in our culture? I say no, maybe I am mistaken. Change our culture and you may be able to, but doing so before the culture has changed will always result in misunderstanding, however differently you perceive your actions.
I fear I can not express myself more clearly, it seems you replied to something I did not mean at all, so I guess I have not expressed myself thus far. :disappointed:
Prostitutes (female and male) dress the way they do for a reason. Everyone knows why they do.
People should be aware of how their appearance is affecting others.
Dressing modestly gives no guarantee that you won't attract attention, but let's not pretend that people don't want to be noticed.
That it's not always on their own terms is what seems to be the problem.
......SNIP ......
Yes, thank you. I think there was a whole draft of misunderstandings there. Good of you to post back. Apologies for my confusion.
However, I was about to post something along the lines of what Jason has responded with... so I will leave it there. No point in repetition...
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Are you suggesting women are dressing along the same lines as prostitutes for the same reasons?
Are you therefore also suggesting that if a woman dresses in a certain way, then she has to accept that she is going to attract unwelcome advances, and it's her fault??
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being noticed is totally different to being sexually harassed, intimidated and held up to criticism and told "you shouldn't dress like that because you're just asking for it", Which is essentially what you are saying.
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No, the problem is that some people think they have a right to criticise, condemn and vilify a woman for daring to dress and appear the way she wants to, and if she is harassed and demeaned, then, that's her problem because if that's what she gets, it's her fault, and she should have thought of all of that before deciding what to wear.
@federica Yeah, maybe my suggestions are bonkers, but I really feel it is necessary to understand each other first. Thanks, the exchange has been interesting and fruitful for me so far. ^^
Yes I guess that is what I'm suggesting. That men and women dress to get certain results. I'm pretty sure that's obvious.
Assault and rape are crimes and are inexcusable but we are talking about sexism here, not crime. And I'm not denying that women (and men) deal with sexism every day. And I'm certainly not saying that people deserve to be criticized, condemned, or vilified for dressing the way they choose.
I'm saying that people should pay attention to how they are affecting others by the way they look, smell, speak, and so on.
I have every right to walk in the woods wearing a fur coat during hunting season.
When I was young I was sexually harassed by forward women a number of times. And by men as well. I know the feeling.
@lazywizard, your points are some of interest. I know you hail from a different culture (I believe you're from the Czech republic) which is somewhat removed in its social mores and customs from those here in the UK.
I also know you are quite young - and I don't mean that in any patronising kind of way - so obviously you have not enjoyed as long a life as I have, or have seen what I have seen, experienced, witnessed or lived with. So yes, we have several different factors there, which make communication complex.
Let me address your points, to see whether I can explain my view better.
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Not at all. Why should wearing make-up be a sign of insecurity? In my case, I wear it to enhance what I look like because i enjoy looking good. Wearing make-up is rarely a sign of a poor self-image. Society is made up of both men and women, of all ages. We are all, 'society', so the fact that many women wear make-up can't be all about what society thinks. It's because we enjoy wearing make-up. And there is no ulterior motive, but to look nice.
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This is all projection. All about what other people think.
Frankly, I don't really care what other people think. I know why I do it, and I do it for myself. What the opinion of other people is, is not my business. They can think what they like; that is their freedom.
I do what I do, because I like to.
That is mine.
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Perhaps, but if I want to wear a certain garment, or look a certain way, why should I conform to what you may think?
Why can't you accept that I feel happy, comfortable and confident, dressing the way I want to?
Why SHOULD I dress a particular way, simply because some people cannot behave themselves and consider things correctly?
if you want to ogle, that's your problem.
If you decide to objectify me, that's your problem.
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Why not?
Who says?
Where are these cultural 'rules' which state what I can/cannot, should/should not, do?
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That's not sexism, that criticism of your own gender and how it deals with homosexuality.
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No, in fact, you give the complete opposite impression. You question the need to wear make-up, because we may be pressured by society into prettying ourselves.
You question the need to display cleavage, and being objectified for doing so.
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Well then, do so!
I wear both trousers and dresses.
I'm not really clear on what 'special clothing' you're referring to. I wear normal clothing for a woman living in the UK. I'm mystified as to what kind of clothes you feel I should wear, to be gender-neutral.
And besides, I LIKE being female - why shouldn't I wear clothing which indicates that?
"I do not want women to accommodate to the opinions of others."
See what you're doing there...?
You're completely missing the point.
You are forgetting that women dress the way they do, out of choice.
Nobody MAKES them go out and buy these garments. They wear them, becayuse they want to.
You are stating that 'society makes them do this that and the other.'
It doesn't.
But you are objecting to the fact that women do these things, because you deem it unnecessary, therefore, you are projecting your opinions onto them. Do you see....?
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Better still, do it, AND strive for change. Why stop what you're doing? Continue, and work to change minds simultaneously.
And I'd ask that you please read mine again.
Consider, for instance, that you're argument is essentially the same as those put forward by male-dominated, religious societies and cultures for women wearing things like burqas and niqabs; and even in those societies, women are still the victims of violence and discrimination.
Also consider that such arguments put the impetus all on women to conform to essentially patriarchal attitudes and expectations rather than on men to change their behaviour, or society to evolve in a more egalitarian way (,i.e., if you dress like that, you're asking for it).
In others words, you can't change things simply through suppression because the roots of the problem still remain intact. Having women dress more conservatively (i.e., cover up) and not wear make-up won't get rid of sexism or patriarchy; it's just another way to subtle oppress women.
@federica I do not think our cultural differences are that significant, but anyhow.
What you said I believe is mostly true, I see your point. The position on these issues I "grew up with", or rather the type I've come across a lot (or atleast I think I have, maybe my mind is playing tricks), is that women really do not want to dress the way they do and do all that they normally do in our society, that they only do so due to some sort of pressure. Thanks for pointing out it may not be so.
I am still doubtful as to whether "doing and striving for change at the same time" is the best option, but it may very well depend on particular circumstances. I guess breaking social norms in some regards might be a very good fuel for change, while in others it might actually be quite useless. Thanks.
@Jason still, I think we are talking about quite different things here, but no matter.
federica helped me realize, that women do actually like to dress a certain way, which might be different from what I believe (maybe as a man, maybe as a certain individual) to be a good way to dress. And it is important enough for them that they want to keep it and want only the attitude of others towards them to change. I may myself be quite happy if I wore a nice plain robe and a funny cap of some sorts (I do like those!), but I may consider make-up to be silly and unnecessary, but my preferences do not have to influence others. Maybe women feel differently, hey, what do you know. If they like it and do not feel bad about it, do not harm themselves by it, who am I to know better. My role here would then be not to judge and not care about what they are doing.
I often find it helps me to look at humans like I would look at other animals. Maybe the females of our species just have a different sense of beauty. Some male birds are colorful and nice, and maybe the female humans want just that. No matter that we make our clothes and they do not grow on us, like the feathers of a colorful bird, it is still a part of our natural behaviour. Maybe something like that, I am not a biologist. But this helps me, I think. Thanks!
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Even in humans, once upon a time, it was far more common for men to wear wigs, make up and fancy clothes. they were called 'fops', 'dandies' or 'peacocks' and styled themselves outrageously to impress the more dowdily-dressed and less colourful ladies of their time. Their clothing was bright and colourful, and their wigs, elaborate and fussy.
Women then began to follow suit....
Men have only recently (historically-speaking) begun to be less conscious of their own appearsnces...
And I think we're talking about the same thing, just from different perspectives. Just realize that the things I say are things I've taken over a decade to learn or realize. So when I say them, I'm not doing so with the expectation that everyone will agree and automatically see them in the same light. What I am doing, however, sometimes bluntly, is trying to expand awareness about the scope of the problem, planting seeds that will hopefully one day grow and bear fruit.
These things influence all of us, consciously and unconsciously, and it can be a long journey of discovery to realize this. As I said before, it took me years of debating these kinds of things with my girlfriend and others before I began to see beyond my relatively privileged position and started to not only see examples all around me, but within myself as well.
By the way, welcome to NB.
@federica Oh yeah, of course. It may not be a sex/gender issue at all. It's just all about understanding, that people might actually be different enough from me in certain issues, which may cause me not to understand and get the wrong impression. I used to like dressing flashy (pink shorts and a wild patterned loose shirt...), but I find myself much happier when I do not care about such things. But maybe others can care about them and not suffer... I do not know, I have to take their word for it.
I don't wear makeup, and have not since probably my high school prom (I graduated I 1994). I wear what I want, but I also do not have a job where dress codes are required. The only consequences that arose out of my decision to just be me was that I learned who my friends are and which jobs are ideal for me. I learned not to sell myself out to be accepted by society.
I am in no way saying other women who make other choices are selling out. I just felt like I was because I was pretending to be someone I wasn't. Mostly because I'd been lead to believe that no one would marry a girl who wasn't "put together" and who didn't "take care of herself." What a crock. I take care of myself just fine, I'm clean and dressed well for the occasion. It just happens that most occasions I find myself in are very casual, so, yoga pants and sweatshirts it is! But when it's time for banquets and weddings, I dress appropriately. The idea that I would end up an old spinster because I didn't conform to what men expected was also a crock. Never had any problems getting boyfriends and my now-husband.
I wish there was a way to make men understand, though. What it's like to suddenly feel so incredibly insecure about wearing a tanktop on a hot day because someone immediately looked at your chest before they even addressed you or looked you in the eye. To be at the park with your kids and have people randomly tell you you are too fat for your shorts, or that you look hot. To be at the park as a teenager, and have another teenager say "I'd hit that!" about your mother because she was cleaning the car out. These things happen all day, every day, to a whole lot of women. Men seem to not want to believe that, because they don't do it. That's great, but it still happens. To hold them to different standards because men get out-of-control turned on, is just ridiculous. Cripes, I should be able to mow my lawn with my shirt off if I want, because it's 90 degrees and humid as hell. But I can't, because not only will it attract a ton of attention but someone would call the police.
However, men who are less extreme tend to still harbor smaller, but still sexist ideas. Things like "well, if you don't want me to look at your boobs, don't wear a tank top!" Sorry, but it's really hot out and I'm not going to dress uncomfortably so that you don't feel a need to look at my boobs. I do yoga, and once in a while if I am at the beach or something my back gets sore and I will stretch out to fix it, but doing some minor yoga poses. Men will notice and say things like "I bet you do yoga. Your husband is lucky in the sack!" It just gets So. Old.
Men look at boobs. Women check out guys too. Fact of life. Wouldn't it be awesome if no one got aroused by anything. Sex might not be much fun though.
The truth is if you don't want to get checked out don't wear tank tops. Or tight pants that show off your package.
That said, boys and girls should be taught how to respectfully appreciate each other's attributes.
I had to learn from trial and error. Painful. But my father was a poor role model for acting appropriately towards women.
It's one thing to notice. It's another thing to make someone uncomfortable over it. I notice attractive people of all genders. But I don't oogle them, I don't walk up to a man and look at his ass or his crotch. I have never in my life made a comment like "oooh your wife is SO lucky to have such a hot husband!" or anything else. It's all about being skillful. I should be able to wear a tank top on a hot summer day (or my swimsuit at the, you know, beach) without someone thinking it is a-okay with them to make inappropriate comments, gestures and suggestions. Don't you see that your "If you don't want men to make comments to you, don't wear things that make them do that" is ridiculous?
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From your posts, you still haven't managed to completely shed the influence.
More work needed if you wish to perceive attributes in a healthy, non-confrontational, non-condemnatory way.
I'm a big fan of descrete ogling. As I have clearly stated I believe it is our duty as parents to teach our kids how to behave appropriately and politely with each other. For most of us that's the only way to really change the world.
In an ideal world men and women would be open with each other about our intentions and everyone would treat everyone else as an equal. That's not this world and it won't be for quite some time.
How do you propose to stop men from being ignorant? So that you never have to deal with unwanted comments again?
And keep in mind that the difference between a lewd remark and a tasteful compliment is in the wording not always in the intent.