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People wonder why I get offended at sexist comments (except @Chaz, he doesn't care)
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People who shovel that line are, by my definition, assholes, and are overwhelmingly white. So I think it was pretty accurate, not a crass generalization or an insult to anyone here.
There are far more insidious and awful ways of being unmindful than using profanity. In fact, I don't really see any connection between "profane" words and unskillful behavior. They can be used unskillfully, or skillfully. They're just words.
I love @Jason, and I'm pretty sure we've called each other assholes a dozen times or more.
I've called my boyfriend an asshole, and my roommates. Words only mean what you mean. I don't call them an asshole like you call a guy at a bar an asshole for stepping on your toes.
On the other hand, critiquing language choice (and whether you are being Buddhist enough) instead of the matter at hand is another in my least-favorite plays in the Internet debate playbook. So once again we're back to trying to talk about something, anything else than sexism.
I've been around this block too many times to fall for it.
OK, done.
That is my understanding too.
Freeing women from abuse, suppression of potential and lack of respect. Women are sadly encouraged to hijack their emergence by the unconscious and semiconscious patriarchy. Can we be free of our conditioning? I feel it is somewhere we can choose to move towards . . .
Thanks @Linc!
I went to the library today and borrowed a book by Simone de Beauvoir, written originally in 1946 (in French), and "scrupulously, meticulously and accurately translated" into English, and re-published (with updated material) in 2009.
The title is "The Second Sex", referring to the female gender. It is a heavy tome - nearly A4 in size and around 2" thick. I began reading it today, and it is as much an eye-opener now, as it was when she first published it.
Astounding.
If anyone has the heart and will, I recommend it.
(Incidentally, I had actually gone with the intention of borrowing a Buddhist book - mine are all in storage - and on a shelf housing books about the other major religions, there were but six - one by HH DL, one by TNH and four by authors I had never heard of.... initially disappointed at such a poor selection, the library assistant informed me that they had a further 19 books on Buddhism - all out on loan!
The book I ultimately borrowed was on the 'just returned' trolley..... and happened to catch my eye....)
I'm game - I'm going to get a copy and have a read _ /\ _
Just a heed of warning. Miss beauvoir has done some questionable things in her life. I am a avid reader of Albert Camus so I am a bit familiar at Paris at the time.
This might be an interesting read though:http://www.theguardian.com/books/2008/apr/19/featuresreviews.guardianreview8
I am not judging but deep down I wonder why she groomed her students for herself and Sartre was it all about sex or trying to break one another in jealousy it is pointless to think of it now though. Does not take away it might be an interesting read.
In the Netherlands we had alette Jacobs a daughter of a doctor her father had to ask permission for her to study she was granted permission and became a female doctor who would also treat poor woman and such. She might be interesting to look up, there might be a Wikipedia.
oh la la . . .
them bad gals . . .
The perfect daughter of Cod, HH the Daily Lamer and the legendary 'unsurmountable' cushion are flawed?
Why . . . is almost like the First Noble Truth (Existence is sexist . . . something like that . . . )
I am happy to read Nietzsche even though there was something wrong with his whiskers.
In Islam, some of the Muhammad cult, hold him up as 'the perfect man' . . . m m m . . . next we will be worshipping Buddha statues (lobster pleads guilty)
Do we believe every cartoon, every holy script, every passing thought?
Not this gal!
Just saying whatever she wrote or had written. Did not make her happy so much.
....
Moderator Note:
Post removed, as largely off-topic.
My father met Simone de Beauvoir. He knew her for a while as a distant neighbour....He said she was the most wonderful, formidable and admirable woman he had ever met. I think EVERYTHING she did was cocking a snoot at the restrictive and inhibiting tenets in vogue at the time.
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Of course you are!
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It never is, but I guess that was part of it. So what?
Women were becoming more vocal and audible with regard to what they wanted. That's what really bugged people...
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Indeed. So why even mention it?
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Trust me - there's no 'might be' about it. It IS an interesting read...
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It is precisely because of the frustration and prejudice suffered by Aletta Jacobs and others of her time and kind, that other women found the strength and resolve to be recognised as people in their own right, with Minds and hearts of their own.
@SarahT Going waaay back to the first page where you asked if the nipple question in the OP could just be a reasonable question. Why is it that women have to be concerned that their nipples are showing at all? It's a minor part of the bigger picture of course but it's always been a pet peeve of mine that women's nipples are so forbidden, so naughty, so sexual. God forbid you go anywhere without a bra and someone sees that your nipple is showing slightly through your shirt. Damn you woman for going out in public with pokey nipples that might arouse someone! Keep those things tucked in and out of sight lest an out of control person be aroused by them and thus it is your fault for making them feel that way. It is utterly ridiculous just looking at nipples alone how differently society views them versus men. Women STILL cannot even feed a child in public without complaints no matter how discreet she might be, but a man can whip off his shirt and run all over town. Nevermind that well muscled sweaty running men turn on plenty of women. That's our fault. It's also our fault our nipples turn on men.
Edit; To add to that, just because we might have curious questions and want to know why...I've learned that just because we want to ask why doesn't give us the right to ask the question. Sure, sometimes in my mind questions come up and I think maybe I might ask someone. Then I realize that my question is a curiosity I want to fulfill that can cause harm to others. My need to even ask that question, whatever it is, is pretty ridiculous. As I frequently tell my kids, not everything you think should be brought into the world.
Have been pondering @federica's new icon - 3 gateways to speaking: is it true? is it necessary? is it kind?
When can speech ever be said to be necessary? When warning of danger, perhaps? But then we would speak extremely little and I would find my world (if I am allowed to have a "world") impoverished by not being able to chew the cud here, to learn from what others post.
Today, this arrived in my in box:
I do intend to continue asking questions but hope to make the timing/questionee appropriate - at least to be mindful of this. But I also plan to try not to take questions asked of me too personally, when they are nothing more than genuine curiosity/interest. So difficult to judge this when there is no tone of voice/body language associated with the words ... so I can but give the benefit of the doubt.
I do find some lessons learnt in my career helpful to this. In writing, one is "never more than surprised" - however outrageous the words being responded to. But perhaps that's a bit British?
The Three Gateways ( "The Three gates of Wisdom one should put every word through, before utterance"...) are the hardest thing I've ever had to consider, yet.
I know that sounds like an exaggeration, but it's actually a lot more difficult and challenging than anyone might think....
Balancing what is necessary, with what we wish others to hear, is a subtle juggling act....
I don't think the intention of stopping to ask oneself "is what I am about to say necessary?" is to stop talking. It is simply to pause to reflect on which thoughts of yours you are choosing to put out into the world. Perhaps it is better to ask if what you are about to say is unnecessary. Because often I find that it is. Sometimes I type up a big long response to something, and before I hit enter, I ask myself similar questions. And often I find that what I just typed up doesn't need to be said. Maybe someone said it similarly earlier. Maybe it is inflammatory. Maybe I just needed to think through to for myself and now that I did it adds no value to the discussion at hand.
One of the things I ask myself when I am online is "would I say this in person?" because if I wouldn't have the guts to say it then, I shouldn't say it online, either. After myself and a couple of friends who admin a facebook page discussed the other day, the internet is like alcohol. People use it as a form of courage to say whatever they think without repercussion because they cannot see or feel the reaction by the recipient. We live in a very small town and everyone knows everyone else, and several people who know and work with attacked us because they didn't like one of the rules on the page. Lots of name calling, even some threats. The same people then pretended nothing happened the next day at work and at the grocery store. Just like those who talk sh*t when they are drunk. They knew what they had said was untrue and unnecessary but caught up in a moment of wanting to feel important, they said it anyhow. Nevermind how it made us feel because they couldn't see it. They'd never have done it in person.
I have to talk to my son about expressing his thoughts more meaningfully all the time. I love to talk with him. We have great conversations about life and current events and all sorts of things. But then there are time he is in the kitchen and he is verbalizing every thought he has. Unnecessary. A lot of people do it. Especially online. But the effect it has is that then people tune you out when they can never discern when you are saying something worth listening to or whether you are blathering on about something that should be kept in your head. Then true communication suffers.
doubtful
That is not meant to minimize anything but to aim the water at the root of the flame.
There has to be a tolerance, or flexibility, in being able to view this issue from different yet equally valid perspectives.
As for violence in general, yeah, there's a HUGE problem. Focusing on violence against women is cutting a slice out of a whole pie, but no less relevant and valid as staying focused (as if you could) on ALL violence. If you get too far out there, you lose sight of the impact on the individual, at least in discussions like this.
Focusing on women or people of color is not ignoring the WHOLE of violence that happens to every human being, or shouldn't be. It's just as real.
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I know, I feel pretty much the same - otherwise, someone will pop up and say well what about this group or what about that group or animals, etc. It's a domino effect in any event, and ignorance is square one.
This has been going around the blogging world the past few days. I found it relevant to this discussion. And if you read it and think "Pffft. It's not like that" you are sorely, sorely wrong. I grew up in a quite liberal family where women are not looked down on in any means. But even then, some of these apply. And they shouldn't. It's kind of long, but a good read. It has some crude language and sexual content.
http://myblueeyeddrug.tumblr.com/post/107125258196/when-i-was-5-i-sat-on-the-edge-of-my-chair-with
So....if we can't tackle the whole problem...then....forget it??
Violence/Sexism/Racism for none....or....sit on our hands?
At some point, its for practical reasons.....sheesh.....I can only concentrate on one or a few things at a time.
Tiny droplets of water make a mighty ocean.
The domino effect also applies to tackling the 'off shoots' too. If you can chew a whole chicken instead of bite by bite....by all means...more power to you....but most people I know on the front lines of engaged change, do a truck load of work....bite by bite.
Like the old cliche says..."If I can help/change one person, it will and can make a difference"
Tackling the ignorance of ALL???.....Good luck with that......
From @Karasti's link:
This is written by a twenty year old! She may not know it, but she is EVIDENCE of change in every word she writes.
"Unlearning to understand them". She nailed it. I relate to her, from a generation and a half back in time. I do remember being baffled why I was no longer allowed to run around outside without a shirt on, when I looked no different than a boy.
My family wasn't exactly patriarchal either, but the same 'that's the way things are' was in my ear. Girls who come on strong make men want to puke. Girls like to be chased. I swear, I NEVER once wanted to be chased. That never made any sense to me. That and a few other 'that's the way girls are' things had me growing up seeing myself as an oddball of a woman. I know I'm not but it took forty years to realize what was truly weird was the nutty 'that's the way it is'.
An 'oddball woman'...yes....me too. I wore a faux hawk for over 10 years, and I was always so shocked at how people would say anything to me...AFA, 'typical' expected looks of a woman...People would actually say.." Your married? What's your Husband say about your hair?....I thought you were gay, especially bec you always wear pants and tennis shoes"...or " YOu don't look feminine at all".......Aghhh!!! Needless to say, I stayed on a soapbox at work....hahahaha....My fav poster outside my cube is:
Good point. We have to do something but we can't do everything with one movement.
The thing to remember though is that we are all in this together and sexism, racism and the others are symptoms of the very same disease.
People do base such a lot on impressions, don't they? Snap judgements. I think it's a comfort thing, we like to put people in a box then we can pretend we understand.
I think it's genetically ingrained in men that they don't tend to take women who chase after them seriously, but prefer the "hunting" to be left in their dexterious hands, instead.
I never minded being chased, but what totally makes me go ballistics are men who somehow think that just because they have an interest in you, you must absolutely give in to their interest.
I have made some very negative experiences with muslim African and Asian men who simply got it into their heads that Western women are free game and simply could not understand that I refused them my favours, in view that I was probably unprejudiced enough to bed with everyone else, according to their rationale.
In Senegal, one very insistent specimen, after half and hour of discouraging, ended up shouting at me "F.. bitch, go back to your country!"
I think it's genetically ingrained in men that they don't tend to take women who chase after them seriously, but prefer the "hunting" to be left in their dexterious hands, instead.
I think it's the way men are conditioned, it's like an expectation. I was always hopeless at that kind of thing and always wished that women would do more of the chasing
But yes, it does seem that in some cultures men are enormously arrogant an this respect.
Let me just say this:
As much as I am wholly against the insistent, subversive, subliminal prejudice evident globally, in so many greater or lesser ways, against women, I am all FOR the benign education of men - and many women alike - who have been subtly conditioned, throughout their lives, by societal and environmental norms, to think the way they do.
I am up in arms with regard to this type of blatant misogyny - but make no mistake: I realise many people can't help it, know no different, and are unaware of their behaviour.
To them, I reach out in friendship and kindness, and I make the effort to demonstrate what I feel the issue is, and redress the balance, if they are willing.
My true Ire is reserved for those who know, know that they know, and care little or nothing about changing behavioural patterns for the better.
My real "fight" is against those who willingly, wilfully, deliberately and knowingly perpetuate and even PROMOTE the subjugation of women, and objectify them, whichever background, culture or origin these people stem from.
@DhammaDragon said:
I've had similar experiences, though I can't remember knowing specifics like ethnicity, maybe skin color. So all I knew was they were African American, or foreign. But yeah, they pour it on thick with this powerful (and persuasive) energy that I was eating UP all that attention and charm. I. was. not. !! Pushy brothers . . .
I've not thought about what went on in their heads, how they view women, but now that you mention it, you are onto something! And I experienced one time that same 'shock' that I wasn't puddled at their feet in gratitude. It got ugly and I had NO idea why. Naturally I felt like I did something wrong (mind you, I was twenty).
In my family, the men called the shots and the women asked for further instructions, though no one spoke of this out loud. "Women's libbers" were scoffed at, and so were hippies as we're talking late 60's/early 70's when I was very young and remembering these things. Patriarchal lite?
Let me say this......
As odious as we may find certain attitudes, there's truly, only one thing we can change and that's ourselves.
People have been bemoaning sexist attitudes since the late 60s ..... 50 years ago ... and look at how far we've come. It was easier to get people to quit smoking cigareetes or to legalize pot.
To resort to complaint, accomplishes nothing, and serves only to make us look like street evangelists who preach that everyone getting saved, sanctified, and filled with the holy ghost will make ours a better world.
Better, I think, to realize our own faults, to cast the beam from our own eye, thatn to pick at the mote in another's.
What a pile of pants.
Are you telling me that if something pisses you off, you never moan or complain, you never remark on it, or deride those irritating you, but you always look to yourself to remove the beam?
Yeah.
Right.
Try to.
I disagree. It's precisely through talking about these things and educating others about them that we can help to condition a change in behaviour.
I wasn't always a feminist, mind you. It was primarily through listening to women and paying more attention to these issues that I began to see that, yes, sexism still exists in our society and I'm partially part of the problem through my ignorance and replication of sexist stereotypes, language, etc. It wasn't necessarily a quick process, but if it wasn't for others talking to me about it, I may have never become cognizant of its existent and detrimental effects.
I agree we should definitely work on noticing the beam (or beams) in our own eye, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't also try to help change things around us for the better in the process. And part of that, I think, is having these kinds of discussions.
I've never been a feminist. I see it as the flip-side of mysogyny. same attitude with different points of reference.
I prefer to look at from a human perspective. The problems with sexism apply across the boardand apply to everyone, regardless of gender. We won't be rid of it until we are completely rid of it.
The only way we can change this is to change ourselves. The problem with others are merely a product of our own minds. If we change our own mind we succeed in changing others.
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Feminism most certainly is NOT the flip-side of misogyny.
Feminism was or is, a movement for those wishing to bring women to the same level on all fields, as men, in the 21st century, whereas misogyny is basically every move, tactic and opinion, designed to keep women firmly in the league of second-class citizens. Or one lower than the family dog.
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Precisely. Whereas misogynists don't. And therein lies the problem.
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This is so utterly meaningless and total waffle, I'm not even going to bother....
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So tell me, how do you propose to change your own mind in such a way as to convince misogynists to change themselves?
15-20 minutes at a time.
@Chaz said:
This might be the point that makes it look like there are antagonistic 'sides' being argued. What I just quoted is a personal assumption of yours. I don't reach the same assumption in my thoughts on the subject.
Feminism as the flip-side of misogyny. That is a lot of piled up assumptions based on highly personal-to-you experiences, attitudes and deeper assumptions. This is what you THINK it is but not necessarily what it is.
We do? Maybe we do it TOGETHER by open discussion and respectful dialogue.
Crank your mind open just a little, this isn't a 'who's right' competition except to the extent it has been made one (papanca, anyone?). It's a nonissue, really. Misogyny exists, and feminism (such as it is) has been our cultural response. Discussing the manifestations of misogyny is like discussing the weather, it is a factual discussion rather than a war of assumptions and opinions.
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Funny enough, I started out thinking the same thing. I thought feminists = women who hated men. Looking back now, I feel foolish at all the silly arguments I got into with my girlfriend. But I'm glad that she kept making her case, and that I continued to engage her until I realized that feminism is about confronting the reality that things like patriarchy and sexism still exists and permeates our culture and society and challenging that reality in order to create a more free and egalitarian world. I don't expect this conversation to convince you, but I hope that one day you'll see that the feminist movement is looking at it from a 'human perspective,' and that sexism doesn't quite work the way you think it does.
Conditionality isn't one-sided. Just something to keep in mind.
Can you go on about this a little, it sounds kind of deep
Kinda looks that way.
That could be, but I think this could be said about any post made in this thread.
I don't think that's possible in this thread. I'll stick with what I know will work.
Actually boredom and frustration has become the extant cultural response.
I agree, the same could be said about any topic on this board, or any topic period. That doesn't invalidate the discussion point though, does it? Honest question. It's like we live in a conditional world within an unconditional world, the latter of which we can't discuss but the former depends upon it.
That is obviously untrue. You don't like it, your friends don't like it but y'all ain't 'culture', just a piece of it.
If the level of change or the lack of it is any indicator, it would seem more true than you like.
As a culture we've been going back and forth on topics like sexism for 50 years, at least. If the OP is to be believed it would seem the back and forth has been an effort in futility.
I would suggest people are bored because it's the same, old, tired rhetoric, covering the same ground. It's frustrating because it goes nowhere. Of course, it may be that some of us really like talk that goes nowhere, but that is only a piece of a broader culture.
When people gather together on a smaller level and it expands to higher levels, yes, it most certainly does make a difference. That is why since 2004 we've gone from 0 states where gay marriage was legal to 36 states today (and counting). It's because people have insisted on having the conversations. It's because people who had it with how they were treated demanded better and started speaking up for it. It takes time, but it works. Unfortunately, the issues surrounding some things like sexism and racism are even further engrained and will take even longer to work out. But having the conversation makes a difference. I've seen a person turn around from one point of view to the other when just the right person with just the rights words brings the dawn of realization to them. One conversation with one person does matter.
It may not seem like it's going anywhere because this sort of stuff is culturally ingrained and will take generations (lifetimes) to uproot. But despite the progress we've made (as little as that is) it's progress due to the same "old, tired rheoric" such as this.
To paraphrase a comedian: If you're tired of hearing about it (pick an issue), just imagine how tiresome it is to live with?
Thoughts>Words>Actions = Actions>Words>Thoughts
(It's a two way street)
I don't think @Chaz means that being '...bored' etc. over it implies apathy. I believe anyone who says they're 'tired' of hearing about it, means that they care enough to be 'tired' of hearing about it because they're equally frustrated about it and know that to see positive change come about would do their hearts good -- it's very much like watching grass grow. I think to assume that someone who comes into a conversation like this one and says 'unskillful' things is a blight on the conversation is 'unskillful'. Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but it's what came to mind to say.
I believe you that this is what you are seeing or experiencing or whatever. I honestly get that, and it's served as a kind of gag for me to keep my mouth shut around certain people, at certain times. But it's nowhere from universal, or even a 'majority'.
Anyway, change at this level is SO SLOW that it does appear to go nowhere. In order to really SEE change you and I have to look beyond our own time on Earth to, say, 8/20/1920 and the 19th Amendment.
I've seen huge change in just my own life when it comes to cultural tolerance of homosexuality and lately, transgendered persons. There are CHILDREN now claiming to be transgendered and their parents and schools and communities are in full support. They are allowing themselves to be on public display (for good or ill), practically martyring themselves for the sake of the FUTURE persons who may have an easier time.
I see how much you want to defend your position on the pointlessness of discussing these issues. It's quite consistent with the majority of the 'positions' you take on this forum. You don't mind being the lone man out on the fringe smacking yourself in the head at the stupidity of the common man.
@federica said:
"The personally-perceived result ('arising') for me, in my eyes, is two-fold: one, the "offender" continues, in 'ignorance' to hold, and put forth, the same views, which I perceive to be tactless, insensitive and unskilful; and two, I succumb to the 'cowardice' of thinking about myself - MY safety, MY image, MY opinion, and that if I say nothing, I disgrace myself, and betray my Principles."
Ugh. THIS. This is what I need to learn. In my day to day, I could give two shits about a guy holding a door open for me and I feel like whittling feminism down to this point is kind of derailing the topic.
My biggest issue in my day to day life is how to handle the frequent micro-aggressions and assertions of authority that I experience from men. I'm talking about things like cat calling or how last week when I was at work, a guy leaned in really close to me (way passing the appropriate respect for my personal space) and said, "I just realized you have really pretty eyes." Or when men I don't know inform me that I would look prettier without glasses, or with my hair up, or my hair down, or [insert any other modification]. Or when guys inform me that they like my glasses because it makes me look like a "sexy librarian." These weird things that happen because some men struggle to see women as anything other than a sexual object that exists simply to make them happy. I don't even KNOW these men, why the hell would I care if they think I look better without glasses? I need to see!
But having said all of that... my biggest struggle is not that these things are happening to me, it's that I struggle to find my voice when they do. If I inform them that I don't give a flying **** what they think about me, then I'm a stuck up bitch. If I flick off a guy cat-calling me, then apparently, I don't know how to take a compliment. If I take issue with a guy invading my personal space to hit on me, then I'm apparently a man-hater. The minute you try to explain how these interactions make you feel, they turn around and tell you why you're wrong. That you're not allowed to have your own feelings about what people do and say to you. I'm not allowed to say that these actions are an assertion of authority that make me feel weak and that these actions immediately change the atmosphere to one where I am not equal. And the biggest problem of all, that I seem to have bought into the lie that I am not equal because of everything in society constantly bombarding me. When I don't speak up, I feel like I am admitting that I am not equal and that just makes me feel worse.
There are instances that are obscenely out of the norm which are easy to navigate... like when a few months ago, a guy at a bar that I had already turned down a few times grabbed my arm and physically tried to PULL me onto the dance floor to force me to dance with him. Obviously it's easy to find my voice then, but when those micro-aggressions happen, all I can think about is that the problem is that society has taught these men to think that these are appropriate behaviors. Men are taught that women don't have worth unless a guy tells them they do, so they do. I was actually told by a man I once met (who was justifying his gratuitous objectification of me), "Some women don't feel like they're beautiful unless someone tells them so." And even worse, many women DO feel this way. His statement isn't wrong... it's just the whole situation that's messed up.
A big problem is that I want people to like me and I don't like making people feel uncomfortable... but by not expressing myself, I feel like I'm denying my own feelings. I'm essentially saying that their feelings are more important than my own. I don't know if this is just me or if it's a woman thing. Boys will be boys, you know. Just brush it off because that's what most women do... It's hard to be an outsider in the women's world who doesn't need male validation to know my self worth. It's hard because many men and women alike have bought into this lie. How can you navigate these frequent interactions in a way that does not preach, but will help to teach? Irl, it just feels like it's never the appropriate time to bring it up. I don't hate being respectfully hit on, but when things pass over into the creeper territory, all I want is to get away... not to have an involved discussion about feminism. And at the heart of it all, it's like someone else quoted in this discussion, 'men fear that women will laugh at them, women fear that men will kill them.' I've been taught to fear men... by people in my life, by statistics, by my experiences... It's so hard to stand up and not be afraid when it's what I've always been taught.
I feel like reading through this, I sound like a teenager... but I'll be 30 in a few months and I still haven't figured this crap out. I just don't want to feel like a victim anymore, but for all the discussion on feminism I've read, it's generally women talking about the problems of sexism, but so little on how to practically navigate them. I know I can't be the only woman feeling this way.
@zombiegirl, Yeah, that would be so great, to have a simple response that addresses the PROBLEM, which isn't just getting feedback on what would make you 'sexier'.
It's like saying anything at all is just providing a new venue for another, if possible MORE pathetic jibe. I feel a bit guilty about it, but I ignore most of this. I'm past the age for any new pair of glasses to make me sexy but not too old to feel disgust on behalf of younger women putting up with this nonsense. If you don't say anything, are you perpetuating it?
I've convinced myself that not saying anything is NOT colluding or perpetuating . . . mostly convinced. Not completely, especially when I get focused on it like now. I don't know. I suppose speaking up whether it makes a difference or not makes a difference for me and other women. Hadn't thought of it that way. I suppose I already do this when it comes to interpersonal violence, like domestic violence or bullying. I have no problem pissing people off then, and enjoy the bash back as an opportunity to ask certain questions that hardly anyone asks in polite company.
Good post @zombiegirl.
We are barely past the monkey stage of evolution. Very few people, apart from the deeply realized can look past the form. Social norms can change, legislation and work practice can change. What is acceptable does change and evolve.
My personal belief is teenage kids in the future are going to be able to change their genders as easily as in video games, back and forth. Insight will go through the roof. That is some way off. For some it is quite a scarey scenario. However for now in Tantra, it is quite possible to be temporarily other than ones gender whilst becoming a Buddhist form such as Tara or Guru Rinpoche . . .
People on this forum got very confused when I refused to align with a gender. When I describe myself as a gal, they are confused by my masculine behaviour. If they see a beard, they assume that is my real form. The truth is 'emptiness is form and form is emptiness'. Try telling that to the monkey mind . . . which of course is part of our baggage . . .
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śūnyatā
. . . and now back to the unoffended . . .
"Thank you for the compliment, but I wonder if you realise that it objectifies me?
I consider myself to be a person first, and a woman, second.
I don't want to offend you, but, you've offended me. I'd appreciate it if you think about that for a second."