People wonder why I get offended at sexist comments (except @Chaz, he doesn't care)

vinlyn

@karasti said:
vinlyn I was misunderstanding...something, LOL. My apologies. I thought you were making an argument that there being more women in 4 year colleges was unfair to men. I hadn't had coffee yet, I beg your forgiveness

No need to beg or seek forgiveness!!!!!

It just made me chuckle.

Actually, I am rather disappointed in the number of my former male students who sought only trade school. But, it was their choice, and for some it was the right level of education to seek.

I think back to my best friend in high school. Very intelligent guy. Always wanting to learn more about diverse topics. Well read. The type of person who always "wondered" about all sorts of stuff. And then he spent his life as a welder...and became a narrow minded Born Again Christian at that!

karasti

The boys I've talked to, most of them that is just what their interest is-they like to tinker with small engines and stuff. Some others don't want the expense of 4+ year college, and they like the idea of going for just a couple years, for minimal cost, and coming out with a job that pays well and not much debt, if any at all. The girls in the same boat almost exclusively go into healthcare, though there is one girl who is majoring in welding.

federica

@vinlyn said:
I think one of the problems, federica, is that you assume that white men have never experienced prejudice that blocked or threatened to block their goals and ambitions.

I assume nothing of the kind. Please do not presume me totally unaware. But I AM correct in saying that men have never experienced the level of prolonged and protracted violence, sexism, misogynism, harassment, victimisation, segregation or pure unadulterated bias that women - their parteners, their direct opposites, their fellow humans - have, for millennia.

One of our friends here on this forum is Tom, although I don't remember his screen name here. He lives in Thailand.

>

That would be ThailandTom....

Twice within the past year he has been beaten by the Thai cops, bad enough this last time that he will be undergoing extensive oral surgery.

>

No, he did that coming off his motorbike...

That's because foreigners living in Thailand are quite naturally (to the Thais) considered to be second class citizens (and even then, we from Britain and the U.S. are not considered third class citizens, as some from other countries to Thailand are considered). Now, I never suffered from the (very polite) prejudice the way Tom did, but I suffered through the bribes and scams, the standing in different lines, the paperwork for silly nothings that were required and would take days to work through to just have some official take 1 second (literally) to stamp a paper that was then essentially tossed. I was lucky that I never happened to be accused by the Thai police of some minor infraction (and that happens to White guys in Thailand on a daily basis and were totally trumped up) just to be assessed a fine that only went as far as the cop's pocket. Run through hoop after hoop is what we foreigners had to do, and much of it was just to show us who was in charge. And of course, you can say that we didn't have to live there, and that's true.

When I tried to work myself into school administration from teaching, in my first school system -- which was a majority Black district -- I was told, indirectly of course, that it would be difficult because most of the upper administration and school board was Black and they were promoting primarily Blacks to administrative positions. So, I took a substantial pay cut and a loss of retirement benefits and moved over the state line to a primarily White district. The teaching job I landed was in a school where the "area assistant superintendent" was a woman, and I was told (indirectly, of course) that it would be tough because she mostly promoted only women. Well, I had to work all the harder than women who were seeking the same kind of promotion to have a portfolio that, quite frankly, couldn't be denied. And once I was on the verge of promotion, the school board member that had to sign off on it just happened to be Black, and said he would only promote a Black candidate (male or female) for that position. Fortunately, the principal who wanted to hire me as assistant principal had a unique ace up his sleeve and he played it, and after a very long delay I got the job.

>

Congratulations. You just experienced something we have had to experience, on an almost daily basis, in The West. You know, the USA, the UK... Europe.

Happens to us all the time.
Welcome to our club!

Or take my neighbor, who has been on kidney dialysis 3 times a week for 11 years. When his kidneys began to fail, they wouldn't put him on the list for a kidney transplant because he was 6 months over the "ideal" age for a kidney transplant.

That's a sound medical decision, that's nothing to do with prejudice, or more precisely, Misogyny...

Pretty much all of us here have agreed with you that there is sexism against women. But there are also others "isms" that different ones of us have also experienced.

>

Yous till don't get it, do you?

There's no man I know who would deny that women are paid substantially less for many jobs/professions here than the men in the same jobs/professions. And we know that women are sometimes shut of some jobs completely. But at the same time, we also see the 20% of our Congress that are women, the likelihood that our next president will be woman, the Carly Fiorinas, the Meg Whitmans, the 6 cabinet or cabinet-level women in the President's cabinet, the 26% of college presidents who are women, and so on.

Is it where it should be? No. Definitely not.

But, did you know that in America: "On a national scale, public universities had the most even division between male and female students, with a male-female ratio of 43.6–56.4. While that difference is substantial, it still is smaller than private not-for-profit institutions (42.5-57.5) or all private schools (40.7-59.3). ... female domination of higher education prevails across all types of schools." And this despite the fact that only about a quarter of college presidents are women.

But there is far more to be done. Most of us men know that. For the most part, it's not male Democrats here in the States who have blocked the equal pay for women legislation. It's a subgroup of men in the Republican party -- for the most part -- that have done that.

I would say that you are guilty of stereotyping. And stereotyping is another "ism".

You would say' incorrectly. Because you still don't get it.

I also wanted to address Jason's response ("Jesus fucking Christ") to my suggestion that more women should run for office.

>

That wasn't directed at your comment.
I may well be entirely wrong, so if I am, I apologise, but I think you'll find Jason was frustrated by your and Chaz's apparent cluelessness...

But you'd have to verify with him, I won't speak for him.

@sndymorn said:
I took the thread title to be a bit of a gentle poke at Chaz. I assumed Fed wanted him to participate.
Perhaps Chaz took it differently.

I didn't write that title.

how

Kudos to Vinlyn, Robot, Chaz and others who question when

a moderator and a founding site father consistently bully anyone who suggests that their current hobby horse (this thread) is simply another horse amongst a herd in the ego's stable.

A hobby horse even with fancy stirrups, reins, saddles and riding lessons are just worldly ways of making a ride more comfortable where as the Buddha simply focused on how to dismount.

I think this thread is inadvertently a manifestation of that Dharma.

robot

@‌ federica

I guarantee that your approach will not win converts to your view. Some might try to say the words that they think you want to hear, which really would not be that hard.
Most will be turned off from even trying to communicate about the issue with you. How does that help women? You are doing your cause a disservice. Get it?

If you can't find common ground with educated Buddhist men like vinlyn and Chaz, then perhaps you should question your qualifications as a spokesperson for women's causes.

I'm with Chaz. I've done my part. I busted my ass to put my daughter and wife through university at the same time. My health has suffered for it. I've been a benefit to the women who know me. I don't owe the female of the species anything except the same respect that any human deserves.

federica

Look at the guys all clubbing together with hurt pride and singed beards.
I guess us ladies should also be grateful we don't have to shave in the mornings.

Good grief....

Do you really not understand what this thread has been about?
Are you really all so 'hurt' and defensive that you completely fail to get the point?

federica

I've closed the thread. Damned if I do, and damned if I don't.