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People wonder why I get offended at sexist comments (except @Chaz, he doesn't care)
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My ex wore make up far more often than I did! (He was an opera singer but think he would have found an excuse to do so anyway ...).
Yes, and if were to go by my own reaction to your posts, I would say that you are hostile to any viewpoint but your own.
But we don't really know each other.
The problem is one of communication not perception.
Partially by having these kinds of discussions again, and again, and again until it starts to sink in.
The position on these issues I "grew up with", or rather the type I've come across a lot (or atleast I think I have, maybe my mind is playing tricks), is that women really do not want to dress the way they do and do all that they normally do in our society, that they only do so due to some sort of pressure. Thanks for pointing out it may not be so.
Good to get your input on this, @lazywizard
The only time I have dressed a way I did not want to was when sharing an office with a man who started coming on to me when I wore short skirts, making comments about my legs and going further at an office party when he'd had a few drinks. I happen to find short skirts comfortable for what I was doing. I felt compelled to stop wearing them.
I have often thought it would be great to change the English legal system to one that is more just. Problem is, I can't think of a system that would be better! Same with politics (two cheers for democracy and all that). So, have concluded I have to make the best of what we have, to lobby for or support improvements where I can.
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No, I'm hostile to sexist viewpoints. And I can distinguish hostility from ignorance. (lower-case 'i')
No, communication in writing is all we have, which is why we should exercise great care before hitting the 'post comment' after tapping on the keyboard.
As for perception, when you say, in "one breath"
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And in the next,
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What perception do you expect me to have?
And there goes @Chaz, with his sarcastic laugh again. As if that in any way validates your opinions....
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These 'discussions' are in remote pockets within our world - our societies, so I have a ton of misgivings as to their effectiveness - which has pretty well played itself out time after time - again and again.
I ran across this in a book within the last few days and I think it fits the situation perfectly:
"The wisdom of others remains dull till it is writ over with our own blood. We are essentially apart from the world; it bursts into our consciousness only when it sinks its teeth and nails into us." - Eric Hoffer
If we're going to have these discussions, then we may be more effective if we talk along the lines of how to make the 'offenders' genuinely aware of just how their attitudes and behaviors affect and hurt THEM. Lay it all out for them, and THEN rinse - repeat.
p.s. the movie, Thelma & Louise comes to mind, when the jerk husband watches the incident on tv where they blow up the trucker's rig and he has tears in his eyes - probably one of the very first times he actually has FEELINGS for Thelma.
That would be great! But isn't that the problem? Sexism helps men by "keeping the little woman in her place".
What I find interesting about this statement is that it implies that men don't have the self-control to resist their libidinous impulses.
I'm surprised that you seem to view this problem this way - which I strongly suspect is your emotional reaction to things that have happened to you. I'd hoped the example of what happened in Thelma & Louise would jog people's memory banks for examples of how it hurts the 'offenders'. I've been hurt pretty badly, too.
Yes - my perception is bound to be tied up with my experience. Regret I've never watched Thelma and Louise so no memory jogging possible for me ... Perhaps you could elucidate?
There really isn't much more to tell about the scene in the movie I described already - to keep it brief. If there's a way you can watch the movie, it'd be cool. It was a very popular movie when it first came out, but of course given the topic, lots of people criticized it and the actresses. I don't care because I thought it was great - funny, dramatic, emotional, the music. I'm having trouble figuring out just how to go about elucidating.
![:\](https://newbuddhist.com/plugins/emojiextender/emoji/little/confused.png ":\")
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When faced with comments such as this one -
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is it any surprise that the implication is confirmed?
You're right. Many men apparently don't.
Furthermore, I'm really genuinely astonished at some of the comments from some men on this forum.
Buddhists have pretty much, generally speaking, come to learn that when it comes to Enlightenment, gender is no barrier.
Many is the time Tara has been cited as an example of how damaging sexism and misogyny are, and both male and female members have concurred that such a sentiment is commendable and accurate.
Yet here we have, in this thread, various comments from several men, which belie that education and show them in their true colours.
So I guess once a woman is enlightened, then she should be considered a genderless being.
Until then, it's a free-for-all and the fact that she's a woman leaves her open as fair game for victimisation, criticism and ridicule.
Right, gotcha.
I used to think discreet ogling was the way to go but one day something sparked and I don't even have the urge to look any more. I can still appreciate the beauty of a woman that isn't my fiance but it's more of the whole package or presentation than it is about trying to catch a glimpse of something.
It's weird. I can see both points of view here and they both seem on the money in some regards and off the mark in others.
I had a friend in high school with a mohawk a foot high in spikes. There were a few times he would be wondering why people have to stare at him. I had to remind him that the whole reason to have something like that is to be different and stick out.
Why do women wear make-up?
Why do men wear tight jeans and sleeveless shirts?
Why is it ok for a child to see two people fight and/or kill each other on tv but wrong for them to see a booby?
It is conditioning and I think that because some men can control their urges there is a possibility that we as a species can change our conditioning.
All anyone has to do is notice how many women's shelters there are and really take in a few stories to see that this is a big problem no matter where we live and I am sorry if any of my comments seemed to make light of that.
I used to visit Chiswick Womens Aid ( west London ) while I was working my first Probation Service job quite near there, this was late 1970s.
It was the first womens' refuge, set up by Erin Pizzey in 1971, I met her a few times when I visited. The security was tight but they knew I was one of the good guys.
@ourself, I appreciate your post.
I can understand your friend's confusion at why people were staring... my younger brother went through a punk phase. The problem is, he would forget how he was dressed, and be equally puzzled as to why people were giving him funny looks. Then he would catch sight of himself in a shop window and (I'm quoting him) "I'd think, 'who the f.... oh yeah... it's me!"
But these are people who actively and consciously CHOOSE to go against the grain, and NOT follow the general trend.
They WANTED to be different, (they said, in their millions!)
Women just want to be accepted, on a level playing field, for who they are, not rendered second-class citizens ripe for targeting, which goes on, every day, everywhere,....purely because of their gender.
Conditioning.
Yes, Conditioning is right, as I have said as much, although my comment was hotly argued against (page #4).
It's a question of simply refusing to accept the wrongness of it all.
I'm seeing how difficult and frustrating it is to communicate through personal and cultural 'filters'. The message is shaped first by the 'first' communicator and then it is shaped again as it is received by the recipient. It's a game of Telephone between two people all the time!
For the XY chromosomed folks here, if you receive feedback calling out a sexist sentiment, that is NOT an insult or a dig against your intelligence, culture, race, nationality OR your d*ck.
It is very, very hard to 'see' through your own filters (and likewise for me). If we could be a little humble and just . . . give the feedback a 'try' rather than reject it outright or assume you've been misunderstood.
You haven't been misunderstood. You just don't HEAR the sexism in your words, the sexism is too implicit in your world view for you to see it clearly. Our brains gloss over the implicit and focus on the explicit. That's one of evolution's gifts for survival.
This is an example of the Buddhist message to examine and begin overriding habit, conditioning, maybe even human instinct in the quest to KNOW suffering and bring about it's cessation.
If you feel misunderstood at every turn, it's more likely that YOU misunderstand. Take a breath, shrug off ego and pride, and take a look at the feedback free of judgment of yourself. Try it on, play with it. You probably won't want to, but maybe someday you will have to.
@Federica When I first moved in with my fiancee, I was surprised by how afraid she was to be alone in our house. We're on a quiet suburban street, in what is a pretty safe neighborhood. She insisted on getting our dogs. At first I resisted, but then she shared the fact that she was scared to be alone while I was at work. As I've gradually come to learn, it seems that many women are in constant fear of being assaulted. I can't imagine living in that constant state of fear.
Is dressing conservatively a valid form of self defense? It shouldn't be that way, but why take a chance? I think I know - dressing provocatively is one of the few ways a woman can influence men in a deeply patriarchal society. But it can be like playing with fire. Am I way off base here?
@Federica
I live in a real world where women are my friends and family. I try to treat everyone in an equally friendly manner and have no gender related conflicts with folks.
If you met me you would find me to be polite and respectful. I never hit on women or make inappropriate remarks.
If I were as ignorant as you would like to believe I think it would show.
If you have a problem with me because you think I am a misogynist then it is a communication problem.
You are seeing what you are looking for.
It is difficult, but let's remember that women have them too.
I don't have a problem with you, because I think you're a misogynist, I have a problem with some of the comments you posted. as a woman, I find them offensive.
I'm seeing what you're posting.
What else can I see?
@robot what @Jason said...we start to impact ignorance by having conversations about the topics.
But it isn't about stopping men from making comments. See? The comments are a symptom. The root is some men who think they have some dominion over women that they think it is ok to say such things to them. Just like rape usually is, it is about power. We women would like equal "power" in the world. I don't want you (generic you) to stop commenting to me because I told you not to. I want you to stop commenting to me because you value me as an equal human being and it wouldn't cross your mind to treat me otherwise.
Fair enough, and that is the way I live my life and have raised my kids. We all want sexism and racism to go away. You are preaching to the choir.
But the world is filled with men, ( and women) who have bought into the idea that clothes are for attracting the opposite sex. Sex drives a whole lot of commerce. So, as long as we raise children that way, you will have men who think that commenting on a woman's outfit is a great conversation starter. I don't see that changing soon.
I know a lot more evil lurks behind the daily interactions of men and women. It must be addressed. It's not there everytime some fool tries to impress a girl by saying something stupid.
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That's just it.
It might be, even unconsciously.
I'm not inferring a man should never compliment a woman (or vice versa for that matter) but it's in the tone, the inference, the suggestion of lewdness which a man may consider to be perfectly normal, acceptable and standard practise, but which leaves a woman repulsed and fearful.
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You could start by seeing that I made a suggestion about how I think this will play out, and I stand by it.
Parents have the choice to stop the problem or perpetuate it. That's the only real influence most of have over others. I'm not an author or a teacher. Look at the trouble I'm having here to express myself. I've tried to set an example of respect for my children. Good so far.
In the mean time, ignorant men will continue to abuse women and ignorant men and women will continue to raise abusers and abused.
People will have to continue to make choices about what they wear based on a reasonable expectation of getting the reaction that they are dressing for. Some things can't be forseen. For some men a woman cutting her lawn in a tank top is the sexiest thing he has seen in the last five minutes.
Back to the ogling for a moment. Why so offended? Who doesn't do it? If it's not discrete it can be rude and repulsive. My ogling days seem to be winding down. I try to see women as mother, sister, daughter. Doesn't always work out, but the impulse to gawk at a beautiful woman seems to be getting quite weak.
Sometimes it's hard for me to believe that we're still so shortsighted. I honestly think it's bizarre that we still wrestle with these kinds of issues.
As if I inferred we didn't
I thought I had that point covered in the Telephone Game.
Good point -- and that is exactly the problem.
The 'lack of imagination' to empathize with why women do take issue with some ways of being complimented on their appearance by men.
You are unaware of the sexism implicit in much of normal, everyday interaction. If you went back in a time machine to 50 years ago, your male ears would be on fire with disgust at the 'explicit' sexism -- because NOW, what was implicit THEN is obvious.
I admit how tough it is to be accused of something you genuinely believe you are NOT doing, in fact make great effort to AVOID doing. That's why I said before try not to take it as a personal judgment, but as information you (not YOU you, but folks in general) are yet unfamiliar with
Heck, we women have been clueless propogators of self-loathing and sexism right along with ya! And if it looks like we are splitting hairs over nothing, check your (the generic your) 'glasses', we are still chopping away at a giant LOG, not a few hairs.
Women are learning this along with the dudes
And whoever linked to the Buzzfeed where the whole Harry Potter saga is told from Hermione Granger's perspective has earned my "Thank You" for fifteen minutes of great entertainment, including busting out laughing several times. I think it was @Federica? Kudos and thanks, I bookmarked it for use upon others
I said it was hard to imagine feeling good about making a woman feel fearful, not that I find it hard to empathize with women that are fearful. I thought I made that clear. Insinuating that I don't see the problem is off the mark by quite a long shot.
Half the problem is people just don't want to really listen to what they believe is the opposition.
True. And just as true that no one wants to be told they are missing the point no matter how hard they try to explain.
This two-sided issue of communication must be why we need to buckle down and talk it out, even if it feels risky or you fear sounding disrespectful.
Make up... a blessing and a curse.
In my younger years, I rebelled against the notion and viewed it as a sexist societal construct. In my 20s, I learned the benefits and felt the pressure to always look "good"... then in my mid/late 20s, I learned to differentiate between "putting on make-up to feel good about myself" and "putting on make-up to make others feel good about me."
Have you ever had acne? Having the option to hide it is quite nice. It can also be a fun way to express yourself artistically. If you don't believe me, check out some youtube tutorials... those women can turn make-up into an artform.
These days, I put on make-up when I want to. I usually wear it at work because putting effort into my look makes me feel confident, and I don't feel bad about it. It's just like getting a new shirt that you feel makes you look good or cool or whatever. I can honestly say, I don't do it for other people, I do it for me. Sometimes I don't care to dress up or put on make-up, but I don't feel any less about myself. Make-up and dressing nice are an option for me to express myself, not a requirement to feel good. I imagine men can understand this notion if they try to think about it more similar to the difference between styling your hair or wearing clothes that you prefer. We all do these simple things to express ourselves and then if you don't... well, good for you too. The point is that whatever choices you make, you need to make sure that you're doing it for YOU not for OTHERS. You need to also make sure that it is merely a tool to amplify your confidence, not the source of it entirely. I think that's how you find happiness in navigating societies concepts of "acceptable."
I think you can sum up a lot of the philosophy of "third-wave feminism" (the current wave, I guess) as "This is world we live in and we will find a way to exist within it that makes us feel good about ourselves." So, in regards to make-up, sure, maybe it IS/WAS a societal pressure that is rife with sexism and objectification... but we're going to take that and just say, "So what? Maybe I also like make-up and you can't say a damn thing about it." Nobody has the right to look at me in my eye-shadow and mascara and say, "Oh poor thing, sucked into the patriarchal concept of beauty," because you don't know how I feel about it, who I'm doing it for. The slogan, "You do you," comes to mind. Changing established concepts one mind at a time, starting with your own, really does have the power to change society... I believe.
This is also relevant when discussing the topic of women's nudity. The idea that for a woman to expose her naked body is somehow demeaning to her is based purely in the sexist notion that men "gain" something from this while women "lose" something from this. So what if men are turned on by bare breasts? Do I actually lose worth by giving a man a boner? I don't think so. Some guys are turned on by feet, I don't care about that neither and will continue to wear sandals if I want.
A lot of times men also view sex as a "conquest." Another idea that the man has gained something while the woman has lost something, simply by having sex with him. Shouldn't sex be mutually beneficial? If a woman wants to have sex and a guy wants to have sex... don't they both win? So why is the term "slut" overwhelmingly applied to women and not men? These are the types of notions that the third wave is striving to break down. Concepts that are actually founded on sexist notions that so many just accept and never question.
The only way to true equality for women is for all of us -men and women alike- to just step back and allow each of us to forge our own paths. It's not right for men to tell women how to feel and it's not right for women to tell women how to feel. We can agree to disagree about topics, even within the great "feminist collective." What is right for you may not be right for me. Maybe I find great enjoyment in being a burlesque dancer, maybe you find it demeaning. Fine, you do you and I'll do me.
DISCLAIMER: I realize I made generalizations about men in here. I know that these do not apply to ALL men and if you are a man and feel like you're not included in these generalizations (which I'm sure may include many on this board), then great! Awesome. I'm happy. But SOME do still feel this way. I also want to acknowledge that while I might be saying these things about men, a lot of women have bought into these notions as well. I don't mean to pick on men, but I do believe it is a little harder for them to see these concepts for what they are simply because they do not walk in a woman's shoes. It's just slightly easier to notice bullsh*t when it's ABOUT you, heh.
I really believe men can understand this!! And women. No question about it.
Just trying to understand it is all I hope for, rather than having this concern become target practice and explained away as 'feminism'.
Without a target, no one shoots. What fun would that be?
I am a work in progress as we all are. I've been thinking about these topics a lot as of late. Building on what I wrote above regarding a man seeing a woman naked... I'm personally working on not feeling so terrible about a man getting turned on by me. I wear tank-tops as often as possible because I sweat a lot. Truth. I'm not going to stop wearing take-tops because pit stains are uncomfortable and smelly. Truth. Lol.
I've realized that, I too, have bought into the notion that a man gains something while I lose something from him "undressing me with his eyes" as the saying goes. BUT I do think it is also relevant that there are many different levels of this. Looking is one thing, cat calling or making obscene gestures are another thing altogether. I'm a lesbian, I check out women. I get it. Cleavage is like an eye-magnet, I don't know why! But I don't cross over into the gross area of being a creep about it.
I guess what I'm saying is... as people... if we're offended by anyone simply checking us out... we need to think about why that is. I have also heard straight men say that they feel uncomfortable when a gay guy is oogling him. Why? We need to think about the root of this discomfort and figure out whether or not it's justified. Because as you say, it is human nature, isn't it? That's what I've been working on, personally.
Makeup never crossed my mind. No one around me wore it. It wasn't on anyone's radar.
I hope you don't think that I said that men cannot understand. I said it's harder to notice. It's like, I don't really know the struggles of *trans people. I might be able to think of a few, but it's pretty hard for me to really understand without talking and listening to one. (And on a side note, I highly recommend the show "Transparent" on Amazon Prime to everyone! Really great for anyone curious.)
Lucky! I had a mother who I cannot really remember wearing much and always dressed for comfort, huge feminist, danced to a beat of a different drum... haha. And THEN I had a grandmother who was the epitome of a 50's housewife and never wanted anyone to see her without make-up and told me wrinkles were like the worst thing. She actually referred to putting on make-up as "putting on her face," that's how deep that concept ran. BUT she was also an awesome lady who definitely ran the show and was a huge feminist as well. So, I don't mean to imply that she's some poor disillusioned woman. I just had a lot of differing opinions in my upbringing that it's taken me quite a while to work out for myself...
(Okay... I'm sorry for bogarting this thread, but I love talking about this topic!)
I so totally agree with this. But I just wanted to say that my current sexist gripe is all of the genderized bullsh*t that comes from women as well. Men are affected by this issue as well and most of those common jokes that start with "Men are like..." or "Women are like..." tend to be such a load of crappy generalizations that simply KEEP us from understanding each other and KEEP us angry at each other. Sure, we have genetic and hormonal differences between the sexes... but it's not helpful when women flip the script and rant about how all men are cheaters or so emotionally distant or whatever. I hope in the future we can all feel free to break out of these stereotypes. Men can feel sad! Men can cry! Stop saying it's not manly! Men can wear pink! Stop saying it makes him a girl... and also, stop saying that like it's a bad thing!
(Okay, I'm done.)
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I have them everywhere. On NewBuddhist. On Facebook. With co-workers. With friends. Whenever and wherever the opportunity arises. And the more we have them, the more effective they can be.
I agree, which was part of the point of my initial contributions to this thread (here and here if you missed them), especially when I said in my second post:
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Yes, @Jason - not surprised what I said has been expressed previously in different ways - after all, this thread started last month and we now have 6 rollicking pages of this stuff.
My main concern isn't the stuff in the middle of the scale - my concern is the violent and deadly activities. This may sound weird, but the genuinely concerned people need to work at both ends, but there may or may not be much in the way of 'hope' - which has also been discussed on fairly recent thread or two. If only we had Gautama's 'sight'.
I missed this comment earlier. I agree and disagree at the very same time.
In the past, I have dressed like a man when I needed to go out alone late at night (Hoodie, tucked my hair up in a beanie, you get it). Is that wrong? I got the idea from a feminist book, Cunt: A Declaration of Independence. Most important thing for a woman is to take chances when she feels safe to do so. Kathleen Hanna once sang about her sexual assault as giving birth to the "gift of fear" (I don't think she coined this term but I'm not sure of the real source). The actual line goes, "I've got the GIFT OF FEAR. I've got THE COURAGE TO HEAL." So, I think about my experiences in the same way. I've learned what men are capable of and so I am now better at protecting myself.
But... in dressing like a man late at night to go under the rapists' (or whatever) radar, I don't think I'm giving into the concept that a man has the right to rape me because my skimpy outfit turned him on. I'm going to explore this topic when I feel safe to do so... I'm going to dress skimpy in the day, if I like. I'm going to work on existing in society as it currently is in a way that will help to keep me safe, but still speaking out about how wrong it is. Just because I turn you on doesn't mean I owe you anything. (I'm talking to the metaphorical MAN here, nobody on NB in particular.) And if I get raped late at night because a guy found me sexy and felt that my manner of dressing made me free game, he is still wrong.
I guess, this is what I'm saying: I do want to keep myself safe, but I don't think I have an OBLIGATION to buy into this crap to do so. It's still wrong and not the woman's fault if it happens. Because, truth be told, it could still happen when I'm wearing that hoodie and beanie to disguise myself. Rapists are rapists. I don't believe that most men are one short skirt away from turning into a rapist. But maybe in a rapists' mind, a short skirt is an opportunity or a reason. He's still wrong wrong wrong.
Isn't this concept the same one that forces some Muslim women to cover from head to toe? I don't believe that their culture has become the better for it. Now the women must dress this way for protection and many of the men have become worse off for it too because of the weird notions they hold. I think our own society has evolved at least past that point for this topic. As in, people who say that covering up will prevent rape for a woman would never suggest you need to cover your face or wrists or other innocuous body parts. So, if we can grow past that point, surely, we can grow further.
That for me is the key.
The idea that we personally, socially and as Buddhists (pah!) have got it/done it/are now sorted.
Being increasingly outside of our culture, gender, experience, time etc is possible with practice.
We are products of our socialisation, hormonal balance, age, personal sense of self, gender alignment and with insight we can be independent to an increasing degree. That is my experience.
Here is me in top green form wearing half a tank top . . .
Great insightful discussion going on here
. Thank you to the guys who so eloquently fight the cause - it's difficult as a woman to just not be written off as a man hating feminist - whereas, sadly, if you're a man I think other men are more inclined to wake up and listen. Then again at least two people have told my boyfriend he has been brainwashed by me when he argues that sexism is a massive issue >.>.
Let me try to put a different perspective on this; one we are actually discussing elsewhere.
ISIS - Sunni Islamic extremists who are perpetuating and enacting atrocities in the name of Islam, and pretty much repulsing everyone with their fanaticism and horrendous, unspeakable, inhuman violence.
These three representations of Islamic fanaticism are by no means, in any way shape or form, representative of the Islamic faith or practice, as a whole.
They stand out, because they are extreme, over-the-top, inhuman and intolerable.
But the MAJORITY of Muslims pretty much would prefer to get on with their own lives and not deal with all this crap. So they quietly go about their business; some DO in fact voice concern and condemnation of the above three. Some do protest and hold their hands up in horror, and claim they are not represented by such actions. But overall, it would appear on the face of things, that most Muslims would prefer to silently condemn, perhaps, but say nothing.
It would appear that their main Religious opponents belong to the Christian faith.
Of course, this conflict has been going on, more or less, since the Crusades.
WITHOUT WISHING TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FORM THE STATE OF CURRENT AFFAIRS HAPPENING GLOBALLY - This is very much a similar situation to how women have been treated by men, throughout the millennia.
There is certainly, without any doubt, a hard-core group of men, world-wide, whose opinions of women are heinous, deplorable and to be viewed with utter and total contempt.
From the very basic simple sexist joke-tellers, who find the humorous belittlement and oppression of women, perpetually funny (and if you don't think it's funny, you're a moron with no sense of humour) to the top echelons of men who perpetuate the vilification and sexual repression and exploitation of women, through such actions as pimping, sexual slavery or female genital mutilation, this behaviour is totally and utterly unacceptable.
The vast majority of men, are like the vast majority of Muslims.
They know it goes on, they see and hear it, but either say nothing because surely, there's no harm in it, or, "what can I do as a lone male voice? I'll be ridiculed out of the bar/pub, if I say anything...." (Ask @Jason about this, he'll clarify, perhaps....) thus, they are aware, but they just carry on, day to day, seeing the flak, and just staying in the background because it's nothing to do with them, not their problem. Mountain out of a molehill, isn't it....?
Just as we cannot expect the majority of Muslims to be apologists for the minority groups holding the headlines (why should they?!) so I am not asking the majority of men, to stand up and be apologists for the minority group of men, who in spite of being proportionately few in number, still wield power, control and domination over women, through what they think, say, do, perpetuate, spread and believe.
The majority are not to blame for those actions.
But through their silence, reluctance to speak, or unconscious ignorance of how deeply this prejudice really runs, they unwittingly and unknowingly give tacit support - or appear to - to those who really cannot be forgiven, nor allowed to continue in the same vein.
Make no mistake: There have been - and perhaps still are - women who play into this, and consider feminism to be a dirty word, with associations of militant hostility towards the male of the species.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I am married. I have a man in my life. In fact, as a wife, I've had three!
I had a father, whom I miss terribly, and for whom I had enormous respect.
In fact, it was he who also furnished me with much information on the history of female adulation and worship; how once upon a time, Goddesses were the primary objects of devotion and veneration: how the female was respected as the creator and originator, the maker and perpetuator of Life and all good things.
(In fact, he was in discussion with a Yogic Swami, on this very subject, and put him right on a few things this Swami was horrifically misinformed about - and he did not take too kindly to my father pointing out the error of his perceptions!)
Being a Feminist does not mean hating men.
Being a feminist means hailing women as equal beings in their own right, to be celebrated for their femininity, and wishing to find, hold and maintain an equal status to the Masculine.
The old, stereotypical image of the feminist with shaved hair, dungarees, 'bovver boots' and tattoos on her neck, must in all sincerity be consigned to the refuse pile.
I do not hate men.
I hate prejudice, I hate misogyny. I hate wilful, deliberate and constant, stubborn bias. I hate the insistence that this is not a matter of any importance, and that women discussing it, are blowing everything out of proportion, and exaggerating things to suit themselves.
I would hazard a guess that my recommendation to one and all to read the book I mentioned earlier, hasn't been taken up by anyone.
But that book speaks far more eloquently on the history, depth and prevalence of this situation, far better than I ever could.
the prejudice against homosexuals is constantly being challenged and fought, and yesterday, a famous homosexual celebrity - a British Icon - very publicly married his long-time companion. What raised MORE eyebrows, tellingly, was the age-gap. That two men were marrying received nothing but congratulatory wishes.
While colour prejudice is obviously still very much a hot topic, particularly in parts of the USA, there's no doubt that black people are enjoying a far better and higher, more successful profile, than ever before.
Artists from Sidney Poitier to Will Smith, from Ella Fitzgerald to Whoopi Goldberg, have done much to stamp the black identity onto the face of social acceptability. And quite right too, dammit.
Yet only the other day, a strong, successful male film star was criticising older actresses for wanting to have more mainstream roles. (I posted a link to his comments and the response form a Critic/journalist). I believe Jason used the term, 'derp'.
In spite of the fact that women, as a species, have existed for as long as the two sectors of society I mentioned above, they still have much further to go, it seems, in general public perception, before they attain the same level of acceptability and contradiction, when ridiculed or criticised.
Because it really isn't seen as a big deal.
Even though 50% of the population is being victimised.
By an active proportion of the other 50%.
It's apparently not as big a deal.
And that - bugs me.
@federica - Hear, hear!! This bit stood out for me in particular...
"I hate prejudice, I hate misogyny. I hate wilful, deliberate and constant, stubborn bias. I hate the insistence that this is not a matter of any importance, and that women discussing it, are blowing everything out of proportion, and exaggerating things to suit themselves.
I would hazard a guess that my recommendation to one and all to read the book I mentioned earlier, hasn't been taken up by anyone. But that book speaks far more eloquently on the history, depth and prevalence of this situation, far better than I ever could."
Maybe I will read it...but I'm sure I speak for many that we feel we've already lived it. (What was the title, again?)
That seems to take us back to where we were earlier in the thread, the need to personally challenge instances of sexism ( or racism or homophobia or whatever ) as and when they arise.
>
It's one sleeping donkey with a really tough hide that needs to be whipped the shyte out of before it can even get on its feet...or so it seems.
