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Alcohol in moderation

Hello everyone this is my first post on this site sorry if it is in the wrong place.

As I'm sure you all know the fifth precept in regards to alcohol, drugs and loosing mindfulness. But what if I had say one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine, would that be okay as long as I don't loose mindfulness?
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Comments

  • hahaha OH HOW RELEVANT.

    Well listen up Blayne and welcome. Alcohol is a vice and it has been scientifically proven that around 25% of people if given the chance would drink it daily. Anyway, I am now an alcoholic at age 25, started at 15. I do not drink daily but if I drink even a glass I will not stop until I am out cold. Like now I went out for a meal and had a glass of wine, that turned into 2 tall bottles of beers, then a bottle of wine and now more beer, I will wake up tomorrow with little memory of what happened.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    You will get varying answers to this here.

    Personally, I am against the ingestion of all alcohol and/or illegal drugs. They are unnecessary to one's life and it isn't as if a line is suddenly crossed where one ounce before and you're not impaired and one ounce later you are impaired. Think of the party when someone has one drink and gets just a little looser in what they say to and about people.

    Now, having said that, and even though I have not had a drink or taken illegal drugs in more than 34 years (in fact, never illegal drugs), if you come to my house as a guest you will find beer, wine, and rum. If you choose to partake, that's your choice, and unless you become an embarrassment/problem, I won't criticize you for it.
    Invincible_summerTheEccentric
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    Your practice will guide your precepts.. Right now you may just figure going full stop on alcohol and items that cause heedlessness is to much. Eventually the practice leads you to seeing there is no need for such things.

    The important take away? Dont go nuts on the precepts, follow them to the best of your ability and practice, practice, practice.
    Inc88Skeeterkb
  • Dont go nuts on the precepts
    For a while I had a nut intolerance that would make me drowsy and then fall asleep. Alcohol I can take or leave, unlike alcoholics who have to leave.
    It is a question of reasonable behaviour. Ideally no alcohol. I have a glass of wine maybe once or twice a month, that is very little and others drink daily. Discretion. Personal karma.
    I would suggest it is what you do, perhaps in keeping to the spirit, so to speak, of the precepts. You are not a monk, enjoy one bottle of beer. Do you follow all the other precepts to the absolute? :wave:
    Vastmind
  • yes I follow the others.
  • Uh-oh - can of worms time!! LOL

    Hi @Blayne! Welcome.
    Invincible_summerriverflow
  • MaryAnne said:

    Uh-oh - can of worms time!! LOL

    Hi @Blayne! Welcome.

    I don't think so this time. It is pretty black and white with this substance IMO, it leads to acts that are non virtuous, unskillful and selfish, so people should see why alcohol is abstained from and also in the top 3 mot deadly used substances in the world. And that is coming from someone who is really drunk right now
  • hahaha OH HOW RELEVANT.

    Well listen up Blayne and welcome. Alcohol is a vice and it has been scientifically proven that around 25% of people if given the chance would drink it daily. Anyway, I am now an alcoholic at age 25, started at 15. I do not drink daily but if I drink even a glass I will not stop until I am out cold. Like now I went out for a meal and had a glass of wine, that turned into 2 tall bottles of beers, then a bottle of wine and now more beer, I will wake up tomorrow with little memory of what happened.

    The problem here isn't the booze, Tom, it's knowing that you're an alcoholic, knowing what will happen if you drink, yet you still still drink that first drink - while you're perfectly sober. That's the problem. That and the feelings that drive you to pick up the first one.

    Anyway, must dash, it's my A.A. homegroup meeting tonight.

  • I met someone who got stressed over a bonbon: “There isn’t any alcohol in it, is there?!” :eek2:

    That was so cute!
    Invincible_summerriverflow
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    zenff said:

    I met someone who got stressed over a bonbon: “There isn’t any alcohol in it, is there?!” :eek2:

    That was so cute!

    Ahah poor girl what about jack daniels bbq sauce.. People need a realistic and thorough explanation of the 5 precepts when they take them on to avoid such fears.
  • Buddhism allows you to not take a precept. But if you take the fifth precept then you should follow your vow.

    Personally I haven't taken the fifth precept just for the reason that I enjoy cider/beer.

    I read and meditate every day and do fun things like going to the gym. I mention that because I recognize an alcoholic as someone who's life is destroyed (to some degree) by that drinking. I wonder what @Tosh thinks of how to recognize an alcoholic as he is very experienced having gone through alcoholism and helped many folks do that task.
  • Tosh said:

    hahaha OH HOW RELEVANT.

    Well listen up Blayne and welcome. Alcohol is a vice and it has been scientifically proven that around 25% of people if given the chance would drink it daily. Anyway, I am now an alcoholic at age 25, started at 15. I do not drink daily but if I drink even a glass I will not stop until I am out cold. Like now I went out for a meal and had a glass of wine, that turned into 2 tall bottles of beers, then a bottle of wine and now more beer, I will wake up tomorrow with little memory of what happened.

    The problem here isn't the booze, Tom, it's knowing that you're an alcoholic, knowing what will happen if you drink, yet you still still drink that first drink - while you're perfectly sober. That's the problem. That and the feelings that drive you to pick up the first one.

    Anyway, must dash, it's my A.A. homegroup meeting tonight.

    Alcohol is not the problem, but just a general means to escape I guess. As you know alcohol fills that nicely, I have never had this issue with alcohol before, I could binge from the age of 14 with no addiction but now it is a different story
  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited December 2013
    Oh. My. Buddha!
    Are we really going to sit here, and talk about all the nuances of the 5th precept, all the possible, acceptable, unacceptable interpretations of the 5th and even go so far as to ASSUME exactly what the Buddha meant - literally - when he uttered the words of the 5th precept 2500 years ago ....

    But when someone claims they don't believe in, or aren't sure about rebirth, or some other facet of faith (within Buddhism), then BOOM! All of a sudden they are practically blasphemous, and ignorantly denying all sorts of Buddhist "faith based" doctrine, and they have no clue how to be Buddhist!!
    Are you kidding me?? Seriously?


    If it wasn't so jaw dropping... I'd be laughing.
    vinlynriverflow
  • @MaryAnne so the precepts are also faith based? They probably are; you could be right.

    But how do we judge faith? Is it based on ideology to reject faith? Or is it pragmatically looking at the empirical benefits (or non-benefit)?

    In most things including politics and religion my philosophy is pragmatism rather than ideology. So I am saying an ideology to reject any instance of faith misses the pragmatism. We should evaluate the results of faith by the fruits they result in rather than based on an ideological rejection of faith.

    If you can't have faith don't worry about it and just practice the parts you agree with. I was never able to have faith in God so I know how that feels to be 'left out' of certain aspects of a religion that is in my life. So I say that you are not blasphemous or ignorant since your views are your own affair.
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited December 2013
    Escape is the issue. I know about this well, not from alcohol or drugs, which i never felt a need for, but with food(emotional/comfort eating, my max weight was 373) and video games.

    No matter what our escape, it keeps us from our practice, which is tough since our practice is what allows us to let go of such things. These mental self destructive habits are without a doubt the hardest things to work on... Im certainly nowhere advanced in my practice to naturally be able to let go of the need for the mind and ego to escape. I still see the roots of negativity and self destructiveness in my mind, they are much less then before, but not wiped completely, and their sway is still felt.
    VastmindHamsakalobsterThailandTom
  • Blayne said:


    But what if I had say one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine, would that be okay as long as I don't loose mindfulness?

    It depends on what the context / your aim is?
  • I wish I could delete my post above -- but I got distracted as soon as I hit post comment, and now it's too late. Just ignore it, everyone. I don't know what possessed me to even try to make a point....

  • Jeffrey said:

    @MaryAnne so the precepts are also faith based? They probably are; you could be right.

    No @Jeffrey, you missed the point. Totally.
    But don't worry about it.... not important. :)

  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    MaryAnne said:

    Jeffrey said:

    @MaryAnne so the precepts are also faith based? They probably are; you could be right.

    No @Jeffrey, you missed the point. Totally.
    But don't worry about it.... not important. :)

    The thread that never ends is bleeding(and creating) into other threads lol.
    MaryAnne
  • I was responding to this post about faith:
    But when someone claims they don't believe in, or aren't sure about rebirth, or some other facet of faith (within Buddhism), then BOOM! All of a sudden they are practically blasphemous, and ignorantly denying all sorts of Buddhist "faith based" doctrine, and they have no clue how to be Buddhist!!
    Are you kidding me?? Seriously?
  • Jeffrey said:

    I wonder what @Tosh thinks of how to recognize an alcoholic as he is very experienced having gone through alcoholism and helped many folks do that task.

    I remember being accused of being an alcoholic by my mother and ex wife, but I denied it, not because I was a liar, but because I really didn't think I was. I thought alcoholics were like my father; dirty, smelly, gutter-dwelling creatures. That was what my concept of an alcoholic was, and because I wasn't there (yet), I didn't think I was an alkie.

    I remember on my Buddhist foundation course that the teacher spent an inordinate amount of time talking about concepts, how we're conceptual creatures, and how concepts can block us from reality, because a concept is never the 'thing', a concept is just an abstract idea of the 'thing'.

    Straight away I knew what was being taught; my concept of what an alcoholic was prevented me from realising that I was an alcoholic. I just thought I was someone who needed to get pissed everyday; a problem drinker - but not a dirty alkie.

    This is what the our literature says is an alcoholic:
    IN THE PRECEDING chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. we hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the non-alcoholic. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
    I go along with that. If someone has some problems with alcohol, sincerely wishes to stop drinking, but can't; then they're probably an alcoholic.


    JeffreylobsterzenffDharmaMcBum
  • Thanks. I had a habit of six beers a night 3 years ago. I did a drunken post on my sangha's forum and from that point I quit for 2 years. I used Buddhist principles to stop. Now I drink but I have awareness that more beer doesn't mean more enjoyment. So I don't think I am an alcoholic.
    Tosh
  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited December 2013
    @Jeffrey,
    I think if you really want to determine if you're an alcoholic, the question is, "why do I still drink - at all?"
    Have you ever gone any length of time with no alcohol consumption for say..... 4 days, or 4 weeks, or 4 months consecutively? (Since you gave up nightly drinking, that is)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2013
    two years with no alcohol, @MaryAnne. I only buy alcohol when I go grocery shopping for the week. So the max for the week that I drink is 6 ciders (or 1 bottle of wine) when I go out grocery shopping. I also am known to have a glass of wine sometimes out to dinner.
    Why do it?
    I find it relaxing and tasty.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    Buddhism allows you to not take a precept. ....

    I'm just curious -- not arguing the point -- where does it say that?

  • Jeffrey said:

    two years with no alcohol, @MaryAnne. I only buy alcohol when I go grocery shopping for the week. So the max for the week that I drink is 6 ciders (or 1 bottle of wine) when I go out grocery shopping. I also am known to have a glass of wine sometimes out to dinner.

    Why do it?
    I find it relaxing and tasty.

    Sooo, what you are saying is .....
    you don't go several days in a row with no alcohol at all ?? or you drink your six beers all on the day you do your weekly shopping? I think I'm confused! LOL

  • Well I only buy six beers with the week's groceries. So if I drink all six that day then I have no alcohol until the next week. If I drink 5 then I have 1 more. If I drink 1 then I have 5 more. It all depends. I don't get much more pleasure if I have several than if I just have 2.

    I
  • vinlyn said:

    Jeffrey said:

    Buddhism allows you to not take a precept. ....

    I'm just curious -- not arguing the point -- where does it say that?

    I don't think Buddha said that. My lama doesn't require me to take that precept. So that's where my words are coming from.
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    Let me diverge a little. Alcohol, cocaine, marijuana, nicotine, food, driving, gambling, sex are all examples of habituation.

    When you decide to become a Buddhist, have you not become a 'Mightily And Habitually Addicted To Momentary Awareness' (MAHATMA) addict?

    I'm on my second G&T tonight and schtill preschent, but there is a definite dischturbance in my perscheption. However, my underlying awarenessch scheems schtable.

    Whatsch the 5th prescript btw ;-_)

    Hicch
    JeffreylobsterTosh
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Blayne said:

    Hello everyone this is my first post on this site sorry if it is in the wrong place.

    As I'm sure you all know the fifth precept in regards to alcohol, drugs and loosing mindfulness. But what if I had say one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine, would that be okay as long as I don't loose mindfulness?

    You always lose a little bit of mindfulness, even with one drink. It alters your brain chemistry and how your brain functions. The amount of mindfulness you lose is proportionate to how much you drink and how your body can handle it. For many people the loss of the mindfulness because of one drink is often imperceptible because it's such a small loss. But there is still a loss nonetheless. It deactivates certain parts of your brain, even if the deactivation is very slight. But of course, one drink isn't going to cause you to run through the parking lot naked. At least I hope not!
    :lol:
  • Could you say something about what you believe 'mindfulness' is seeker242
  • robotrobot Veteran
    edited December 2013

    Tosh said:

    hahaha OH HOW RELEVANT.

    Well listen up Blayne and welcome. Alcohol is a vice and it has been scientifically proven that around 25% of people if given the chance would drink it daily. Anyway, I am now an alcoholic at age 25, started at 15. I do not drink daily but if I drink even a glass I will not stop until I am out cold. Like now I went out for a meal and had a glass of wine, that turned into 2 tall bottles of beers, then a bottle of wine and now more beer, I will wake up tomorrow with little memory of what happened.

    The problem here isn't the booze, Tom, it's knowing that you're an alcoholic, knowing what will happen if you drink, yet you still still drink that first drink - while you're perfectly sober. That's the problem. That and the feelings that drive you to pick up the first one.

    Anyway, must dash, it's my A.A. homegroup meeting tonight.

    Alcohol is not the problem, but just a general means to escape I guess. As you know alcohol fills that nicely, I have never had this issue with alcohol before, I could binge from the age of 14 with no addiction but now it is a different story
    What did you think would happen?
    As a 14yr old you might not be aware that alcohol is addictive.
    At 20 you feel like it could never happen to you because you feel invincible.
    By 25 you know that alcohol is addictive and that every time you drink the addiction worsens.
    Knowing this, if you continue to drink its because you are weak, for some reason. You are powerless to stop.
    Is that the way you view yourself?
    Soon you will be 30, 40, 50.
    You can predict your own future. Mediocrity, poor health, a waste of precious time.
    vinlynThailandTomMaryAnne
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    I disagree - mindfulness is mindfulness. Just watch what happens when you drink - or take drugs, you can get involved in the experience of losing 'control' or you can see how you lose 'control', the first is habituation, the second engenders moderation. I no longer drink to get drunk, as when I was a student - I know when to stop, as I have learned to see loss of control.

    Unfortunately, some of my friends at uni didn't.
    Jeffrey
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited December 2013
    But of course, one drink isn't going to cause you to run through the parking lot naked. At least I hope not!
    I feel more sober 'naked runners through parking lots' are a good thing. Sounds like fun and may encourage us to leave the car at home . . . :p
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    Could you say something about what you believe 'mindfulness' is seeker242

    I like "Sati-Sampajanna". Ajahn Jayasaro explains it way better than I can. He talks about it mostly in the context of meditation but I think it's applicable to day-to-day life also :)

  • robot said:

    Tosh said:

    hahaha OH HOW RELEVANT.

    Well listen up Blayne and welcome. Alcohol is a vice and it has been scientifically proven that around 25% of people if given the chance would drink it daily. Anyway, I am now an alcoholic at age 25, started at 15. I do not drink daily but if I drink even a glass I will not stop until I am out cold. Like now I went out for a meal and had a glass of wine, that turned into 2 tall bottles of beers, then a bottle of wine and now more beer, I will wake up tomorrow with little memory of what happened.

    The problem here isn't the booze, Tom, it's knowing that you're an alcoholic, knowing what will happen if you drink, yet you still still drink that first drink - while you're perfectly sober. That's the problem. That and the feelings that drive you to pick up the first one.

    Anyway, must dash, it's my A.A. homegroup meeting tonight.

    Alcohol is not the problem, but just a general means to escape I guess. As you know alcohol fills that nicely, I have never had this issue with alcohol before, I could binge from the age of 14 with no addiction but now it is a different story
    What did you think would happen?
    As a 14yr old you might not be aware that alcohol is addictive.
    At 20 you feel like it could never happen to you because you feel invincible.
    By 25 you know that alcohol is addictive and that every time you drink the addiction worsens.
    Knowing this, if you continue to drink its because you are weak, for some reason. You are powerless to stop.
    Is that the way you view yourself?
    Soon you will be 30, 40, 50.
    You can predict your own future. Mediocrity, poor health, a waste of precious time.
    Good point, I am just downright stupid
    robot
  • Cigarettes in moderation?

    or heroin, meth, opium in moderation.......?

    the question to be asked is why .

    is it out of habit or do you like being a little tipsy?

    Blayne said:

    Hello everyone this is my first post on this site sorry if it is in the wrong place.

    As I'm sure you all know the fifth precept in regards to alcohol, drugs and loosing mindfulness. But what if I had say one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine, would that be okay as long as I don't loose mindfulness?

    Invincible_summer
  • lol nobody does heroin in moderation, good point.
    'ah yea I am just going to do a little heroin tonight, maybe just 2 shots and then nothing for 2 weeks'

    I think vices such as drugs and alcohol even if they are not addictive all boil down to one thing, and that is to escape and or change reality. Coffee, people need it to start their day as they cannot naturally anymore with the energy they have, smoking, people are stressed or bored because they are nor smoking, psychedelics, reality is boring and is more fun and more profound with them. It all comes down to wanting your reality changed for whatever reason.
    DharmaMcBum
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited December 2013

    Good point, I am just downright stupid

    I think you are an alcoholic. I don't think you or Tosh or other addicts are stupid. It seems from what I know, total abstention is the only smart but hard option.

    Some seem to have a propensity for self destructive behaviour. In a very real sense self annihilation when shifted slightly into 'dharma addiction', enables, inspires and empowers the destruction of the hindrances

    “Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.”
    Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts at the back)

    :wave:
    ThailandTomanatamanTosh
  • lobster said:

    Good point, I am just downright stupid

    I think you are an alcoholic. I don't think you or Tosh or other addicts are stupid. It seems from what I know, total abstention is the only smart but hard option.

    Some seem to have a propensity for self destructive behaviour. In a very real sense self annihilation when shifted slightly into 'dharma addiction', enables, inspires and empowers the destruction of the hindrances

    “Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.”
    Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts at the back)

    :wave:
    Yep self destruct mode switched on, need to find that override button
    :p

  • Yep self destruct mode switched on, need to find that override button
    :p

    It's the button under the 'intolerable pain and suffering' experience; the one just by the button marked 'Rock Bottom'.

    Funny business alcoholism. Someone further up mentioned that alkies drink because they're weak. I know alkies that've drank themselves onto the streets; that's a hard way to live. There's nothing soft to even lay your head on. Street alkies aren't weak, they're tough; you've got to be to endure those hardships.

    Me on the other hand, I stopped drinking because I was weak, I just couldn't take any more pain and suffering, yet other alcoholics amaze me with their sheer determination and resilience. Last week I coerced an 'almost street alcoholic' to an A.A. meeting. He's a nice guy even when he's drunk; his guts are swollen due to his enlarged liver and he was telling me that last year he went to his sister's house at Christmas, and there was his nephew (a surgeon) who he hadn't seen since he was a baby. Michael (the alkie) said to the surgeon, "Ah, the last time I saw you I was changing your nappies", and the surgeon said, "In a year-or-two I will be changing your nappies. Please leave!".

    If I was a betting man, I'd bet that Michael's a gonner, he views A.A. as 'the enemy' and he has no other options. But he must be tough to live the way he lives; he's definitely far from weak.

    Maybe there's a paradox in there somewhere?
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    MaryAnne said:


    But when someone claims they don't believe in, or aren't sure about rebirth, or some other facet of faith (within Buddhism), then BOOM! All of a sudden they are practically blasphemous, and ignorantly denying all sorts of Buddhist "faith based" doctrine, and they have no clue how to be Buddhist!!
    Are you kidding me?? Seriously?

    Eh? I don't see how this bears any relation to the kind of comments that are being made.
  • pyramidsongpyramidsong Veteran
    edited December 2013
    I am a former binge drinker. If I had one I had to have ten. Thankfully, I was never a daily drinker and as such wasn't really physically addicted, but when I did it was bad. We are talking ambulances, police, getting into cars with strange men (my blackouts were so extreme to this day I could have been raped and not know about it) a DUI, behaviour which permanently damaged relationships. Now I don't drink. I have on a couple of occasions ordered a drink and because I am so cautious these days it didn't lead to more, but I didn't enjoy it either because I was so nervous it would turn into a bender so it's easier just not to have any. I can still eat desserts and sauces with booze in them with no problem but I seldom do.

    As for the Buddhist standpoint, meh, to each his own, I'm not an expert. I will say, though, that from what I've read even a small amount will affect a person's mental clarity (booze is a depressant) so there's that.

    Listen to Tosh. Dude knows what he's talking about on this subject.
    riverflow
  • Blayne said:

    Hello everyone this is my first post on this site sorry if it is in the wrong place.

    As I'm sure you all know the fifth precept in regards to alcohol, drugs and loosing mindfulness. But what if I had say one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine, would that be okay as long as I don't loose mindfulness?

    I have a personal interest in relating spiritual principles to modern western life and using typical aspects of modern western life as vehicles for spiritual development. For example, the consumption of alcohol. Most people aren't going to stop drinking, but it doesn't mean that they can't have a spiritual practice, and it doesn't mean that the alcohol cannot be a part of that practice given a skilful state of mind.

    For example, most people when drunk lose their inhibitions and certain behaviours and thoughts begin to spill out unfiltered. As such, alcohol can become almost like an assessor of our progress - if you're drunk then you'll soon find out where exactly you are at, and i'm sure people around you will tell you! But if you get drunk and retain a peaceful, cheerful, loving state of mind then you can pretty much be assured that your practice is going well, at which point you probably are at a stage where giving up alcohol would be a real consideration.

    To be clear, i'm not advocating drinking alcohol, nor saying that it should be a part of our spiritual practice, just that if you are wanting to drink alcohol then you may as well be benefiting from it until you are ready to leave it behind.
    Toshriverflow
  • As such, alcohol can become almost like an assessor of our progress - if you're drunk then you'll soon find out where exactly you are at, and i'm sure people around you will tell you! But if you get drunk and retain a peaceful, cheerful, loving state of mind then you can pretty much be assured that your practice is going well, at which point you probably are at a stage where giving up alcohol would be a real consideration.

    I believe science has shown that alcohol affects people in different ways. I saw an interesting documentary where three people were put in an MRI brain scanner and given alcohol intravenously (to cut out differences in metabolism); one was a tee-totaller, one was a moderate drinker and the third an alcoholic.

    The tee-totaller's (by choice) brain 'lit up' only a little bit. The moderate drinker's brain 'lit up' a little bit more, but the alcoholic's brain was extremely 'lit up'. It kinda shows that our subjective experience of being drunk can be very different. Mrs Tosh says she doesn't like that 'out of control feeling', when she's drank too much, which I find strange, because when I drank, I felt IN CONTROL (even if I couldn't walk properly).

    I once described drinking alcohol as a spiritual experience (and it could be for me) and Vinlyn said that my description was very sad and kinda undermined what a spiritual experience was. I think he's just not receptive to alcohol the way some folk are.

    Once at a Buddhist lesson the monk was saying how much joy it was to love just one person, so just imagine how much joy we could get if we loved everyone. Later I told the monk that I had actually experienced that. I've been in the Naafi bar, surrounded by comrades, drunk, and I felt an almost overwhelming love for each one of them.

    Half an hour later I was probably fighting some of them; shame really.
    :o
    lobsterriverflow
  • Blayne said:

    Hello everyone this is my first post on this site sorry if it is in the wrong place.

    As I'm sure you all know the fifth precept in regards to alcohol, drugs and loosing mindfulness. But what if I had say one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine, would that be okay as long as I don't loose mindfulness?

    In some Buddhist literature, intoxicants instead of alcohol is stated in the fifth precept. I suppose anything that cause one to lose mindfulness is not encouraged, that include TV and Karaoke, I suppose . The 5 precepts is also not a commandment; so, I suppose too you can have the final say. If one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine is okay, then it is okay for you.
    riverflow
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    footiam said:

    Blayne said:

    Hello everyone this is my first post on this site sorry if it is in the wrong place.

    As I'm sure you all know the fifth precept in regards to alcohol, drugs and loosing mindfulness. But what if I had say one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine, would that be okay as long as I don't loose mindfulness?

    In some Buddhist literature, intoxicants instead of alcohol is stated in the fifth precept. I suppose anything that cause one to lose mindfulness is not encouraged, that include TV and Karaoke, I suppose . The 5 precepts is also not a commandment; so, I suppose too you can have the final say. If one bottle of beer or a small glass of wine is okay, then it is okay for you.
    the translation I like is " drinks and drugs which cause heedlessness". I'm fairly sure the translation means more then " alcohol".
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Yes, I agree, although I prefer the translation "drinks and drugs which can cause heedlessness".
    riverflowInvincible_summer
  • I've had a really nice cherry lambic beer in the fridge now for about a month.
    Invincible_summer
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