The Other Elephant In The Room

IdleChater · February 22

@Shoshin1 said:

The evidence given against Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian territories is quite damning...

Yeah, but Israel is likely to ignore any decision from ICJ, as will the US.

Shoshin1 · February 23

@IdleChater said:

@Shoshin1 said:

The evidence given against Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian territories is quite damning...

Yeah, but Israel is likely to ignore any decision from ICJ, as will the US.

Yes, judging by past experiences they most probably will...

When it comes to Palestinians, this Israeli government has a blatant disregard for human rights and human life...( it would seem both the US and UK governments also have a blatant disregard for Palestinian civilian lives)

And as many of us have already witnessed, the Israeli government tends to play the anti Semitism card anytime their illegal activities in the Palestinian territories are questioned...

I really feel for those Israelis and non Israeli Jewish people who don't support the Israeli government's actions or the behaviour of the IOF troops in Gaza.
For them, anti Semitism really is an issue, because thanks to this ongoing bombardment of Gaza and the killing of thousands of civilians by the IOF and Netanyahu falsely claiming the bombardment of Gaza is to 'protect' all Jewish people , this ongoing bombardment has led to many countries who first supported Israel's right to defend itself, to condemnation of Israel's actions . The support is now more in favour of an end of hostilities and the end of Israel's illegal occupation in Gaza and the West Bank...

No doubt this shift in support for Israel has given anti Semites the green light to express their vile, hateful rhetoric more openly...

The lines can easily become blurred between anti Semitism and anti Israeli government, perhaps this is what Netanyahu wanted all along...

Shoshin1 · February 23

Doctors Without Borders / Médecins Sans Frontières to UN Security Council: The people of Gaza need an immediate and sustained ceasefire now.

“Meeting after meeting, resolution after resolution, this body has failed to effectively address this conflict,”. “We have watched members of this Council deliberate and delay while civilians die. This death, destruction, and forced displacement are the result of military and political choices that blatantly disregard civilian lives. These choices could have been—and still can be—made very differently.”

The people of Gaza need a ceasefire not when “practicable”, but now. They need a sustained ceasefire, not a “temporary period of calm”.
Anything short of this is gross negligence. The protection of civilians in Gaza cannot be
contingent on resolutions from this Council which instrumentalise humanitarianism to blur political objectives. The protection of civilians, of civilian infrastructure, of health workers and health facilities, falls first and foremost on the parties to the conflict.
But it is also a collective responsibility – a responsibility which rests with this Council, and to its individual members, as parties to the Geneva Conventions.
The consequences of casting international humanitarian law to the wind will reverberate well beyond Gaza. It will be an enduring burden on our collective conscience. >This is not just political inaction – it has become political complicity. Two days ago, >MSF staff and families were attacked and died in a place they were told would be protected. Today our staff are back at work, risking their lives once again for their patients.
What are you willing to risk?
We demand the protections promised under International Humanitarian Law.
We demand a ceasefire from both parties.
We demand the space to turn the illusion of aid to meaningful assistance.
What will you do to make this possible?

”

IdleChater · February 24

@Shoshin1 said:
No doubt this shift in support for Israel has given anti Semites the green light to express their vile, hateful rhetoric more openly...

Well, it's happening. According to the ADL, anti-Semitism has gone up 388% since Oct. 7. Now, I don't know how they define anti-Semitism - if things they call anti-Semitic are really anti-Israeli. Not the same thing IYAM. Regardless, there are a lot of people in the US who have bad feelings towards Israel and Jews.

The lines can easily become blurred between anti Semitism and anti Israeli government, perhaps this is what Netanyahu wanted all along...

Well, it's been going on for a long time. Some people think that anti-Israel and anti-Jew are the same thing. And they want us to believe that, so Israel can get away with whatever they want simply by playing the anti-Semitism card and the US government shits the bed.

Shoshin1 · February 24

Israeli Settlements ‘Biggest Obstacle’ To Two-State Solution, Says Norway At ICJ

Norway has asserted that Israel's occupation of Palestine is evolving into de-facto annexation and constitutes a violation of international law.

In its submission to the ICJ hearings on the lawfulness of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, Norway's representative emphasized that Israel's apartheid wall breaches international law and complicates the achievement of a two-state solution.

The representative also argued that Israeli settlements in Palestinian territories contravene Article 416 of the Geneva Convention. Norway urged the reversal of negative trends on the ground that are undermining the possibility of a two-state solution.

The representatives from Norway at the ICJ include Kristian Jervell, Head of the Expedition in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Rolf Einar Fife, Norway’s Envoy to the EU.

Shoshin1 · February 25

Irish lawyer's powerful speech spelling out case against Israel for crimes against Palestine

Mr. President, I wish to turn now to the question of self-determination. As submitted in our written statement, Ireland has concluded that – by its prolonged occupation of Palestinian lands and continuous settlement activity on those lands – Israel has prevented the exercise by the Palestinian people of their right to self-determination. The principle of self-determination is a fundamental principle of international law, enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and the two 1966 International Covenants on Civil and Political Rights and on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. The content of that principle was elaborated in the 1970 Declaration on Friendly Relations, adopted by consensus at the General Assembly. That Declaration makes clear that:

‘Every State has the duty to promote, through joint and separate action, realization of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples … bearing in mind that subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a violation of the principle, as well as a denial of fundamental human rights, and is contrary to the Charter.’

The Declaration solemnly proclaims that ‘(e)very State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples … in the elaboration of the present principle of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.’

In the Wall case, the Court found that the construction of the wall and its associated regime severely impeded the exercise by the Palestinian people of their right to self-determination. It therefore breached Israel’s obligation to respect that right. In Ireland’s view, the combination of Israel’s prolonged occupation of the OPT and its escalating settlement activity has done so on a far greater scale. That escalating activity has increasingly fragmented Palestinian presence upon – and restricted Palestinian use of – the land and natural resources of the Palestinian people. It threatens the viability of a future Palestinian State. The nature, scale and duration of settlement activity is such that its purpose can only be to permanently obstruct the exercise of the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination.

For those interested, the full transcript of the speech can be found "HERE"

Hmm I wonder what the US, UK and the Israeli government have got planned to try and distract public attention away from these hearings...Perhaps more illegal bombing raids to ramp up tension in the Middle East ... ( There's nothing like a war to distract public attention away from the real issues)

The feeble attempts made by the "Three Um Egos" to conceal their true motives for their illegal actions would be comical if it weren't for the fact that innocent lives are at risk.

Shoshin1 · February 25

Interesting interview with Jeffery Sachs about the Israeli settlers

He makes an interesting point (around 28 minutes in) regarding a two state solution..

"There are two possibilities. Basically, the Israeli government says explicitly every day, 'We will control Gaza.' Well, there can be no peace on that basis, and my guess is no ceasefire, even if that were to lead to that outcome at the end of a period. The other possibility is what has been part of international law for 57 years, and that is a Palestinian State. My own view is that the UN Security Council, and of course it would do it if the US would not veto it, should immediately recognize a Palestinian State as the 194th member state of the United Nations upfront. Not at the end of a process, but upfront. The rest can follow, but I would make that the fact on which all the rest happens. So that it's negotiations between two sovereign states. And this, to my mind, would flip the kind of phony process and the failed process of the last dozens of years."

>

Shoshin1 · February 28

Eleventh Hearing: ICJ on Israeli Policies in Occupied Palestinian Territories | United Nations

Palestine on the Protection of Civilians in Armed Conflict | Security Council | United Nations

Shoshin1 · March 1

Hmm interesting... According to him, 4 out of 5 Americans support Israel....

Netanyahu delivers key speech as hostage talks continue, IDF draft extension looms

Around seven minutes in, the real truth comes out...

He will not agree to an election, because he knows what will happen if there is one, he wants to stay in power and will do whatever it takes to do so...

Shoshin1 · March 1

Mihairi Black Scottish politician addressing the UK parliament

Shoshin1 · March 1

U.S. Terrorism Laws Are "Anti-Palestinian at the Core," Chill First Amendment

And this is what is happening in Aotearoa right now... Hmm I wonder if there's a connection....

Govt declares entirety of Hamas a terrorist entity

The US government says jump and the NZ right wing government asks how high ?

Shoshin1 · March 2

Starvation was a central strategy in the Nazi genocide against the Jews. Hitler had long been aware of the power that lay in controlling the food.

In Hitler’s view, hunger and malnutrition was a key reason behind Germany’s defeat in World War I. For that reason, securing food for his troops became a key priority as he led his nation into the Second World War. A central tenet of Nazi thought was the idea of Lebensraum; the growth and expansion of the German people and its lands. The Germanic race was viewed as superior, and this ideology justified the theft of land and food supplies from those seen as racially inferior, such as Poles, Slavs, and Jews.

As Germany was planning the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941, acquiring food for German soldiers was a central to their grand strategy. The minutes from Nazi meetings makes apparent what their expectation for the Soviet invasion was; millions of local civilians would likely die of hunger when German troops confiscated the food supply. This, however, was not seen as a problem. A month later, tanks rolled into Soviet territory, and proceeded with what became known as Der Hungerplan. Approximately 7 million Soviet civilians, Jews and gentiles alike, died as a consequence of Der Hungerplan.

"That we sentence 1.2 million Jews to die of hunger should be noted only marginally."
~Hans Frank, Nazi governor in occupied Poland~

A HUNGER PLAN FOR THE CAMPS
Forced, deliberate starvation also played a role in the Holocaust. In the Jewish ghettos, the access to food was tightly controlled. It was up to the Nazis to decide who would have access to meat or bread, and the Jewish shops had a very small selection of foods. “It is hard to say how many Jews died from hunger”, says Anette Homlong Storeide, researcher at the Falstad Centre, a museum, memorial and human rights centre in Norway. “Many of those who died in the gas chambers or during transport to the concentration camps, were already emaciated.”

SS and the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) had adopted a general food plan for the camps. The prisoners were to be fed three times a day. The first was a type of coffee replacement, with no sugar. The second meal was to consist of a litre of soup with root vegetables and grains. And for the last meal of the day, the prisoners were to be served 300 grams of dark bread with either sausage, margarine, some cheese, or a spoonful of jam.

Storeide has never come across stories of prisoners who were actually fed these prescribed meals, apart from the occasional ration of margarine. In the last year of the war, the bread ration was down to 50 grams per day.

“This meal plan probably never materialized, and should rather be viewed as a sort of “advertisement”, meant to hide how bad the conditions in the camps actually were. In general, the prisoners were barely fed any proteins or fats. This was seen as important foodstuffs, reserved for the German population.”, explains Storeide.

The combination of poor food and hard physical labour led to emaciation. Many fell ill from the starvation. If anyone became too weak to work, they risked being sent to the gas chamber.

Shoshin1 · March 2

Swedish MEP "Silent Protest"

Shoshin1 · March 2

This was in my YouTube feed ....
ILTV Israel News is an independent English-language media company based in Tel Aviv,
Interesting...
Douglas Murray being interviewed on Israeli TV

Emily Schrader sits down with renowned author and journalist Douglas Murray to discuss the Israel-Gaza war and the cowardice of the West in confronting Islamist terror. >Is it too late for the West? We discuss on ILTV’s Viewpoint, bringing the most important voices from the war directly to you.

Emily Schrader sits down with the journalist and Lital Shemesh to discuss the Israel->Gaza war and the cowardice of the West in confronting Islamist terror. We discuss...
on ILTV’s Viewpoint, bringing the most important voices from the war directly to you.
In today’s media, biased reporting and anti-Israel agendas are prevalent, as the State of Israel is under relentless attack.
From the “spinning” of unfolding political events in order to display Israel in a negative light, to the misrepresenting facts, media outlets are providing the fuel which shapes negative public opinion and contributes to the Delegitimization of the State of Israel.

What I got from both interviews was....
A recruitment drive to get young Israelis and pro Israel supporters to join the IOF

And an attempt to justify the killing of thousands of innocent civilians along with the targeting of journalists and humanitarian workers...by labelling all Palestinians and most of the middle Eastern Muslim world has potential terrorists...

Shoshin1 · March 3

The US air force has started to drop food into Gaza and at the same time the US government continues to supply money to Israel so they can to drop more bombs...WTF

Does genocide Joe expect the Palestinian people to thank him for this....

IdleChater · March 3

@Shoshin1 said:

And an attempt to justify the killing of thousands of innocent civilians along with the targeting of journalists and humanitarian workers...by labelling all Palestinians and most of the middle Eastern Muslim world has potential terrorists...

Christ. They're not trying to justify the ethnic cleansing. They're just doing it.

I heard something on PBS. An Israeli stated that they weren't waging war against Palestinians. He then said they were waging war against Hamas who are hiding behind civilians.

Ok. They're hiding behind civilians? How about this: there are so many Palestinians crammed into Gaza it would be impossible to separate the good guys from the bad. And it would seem the IDF have no restraint when it comes to killing civilians to get at Hamas. In the words of Arnaud Amalric, "Kill them all. God will know his own.".

Palestinians must be nothing more than human sandbags.

Lionduck · March 3

At last, humaitarian air drops for the Gaza civilians. With US and allied airdrops, the IDF will find it much harder to target the civilians. Not a total ceasefire, but an improvement.

Shoshin1 · March 4

Sadly not really much of an improvement though, because the US government is still supplying Israel with weapons/bombs to carry on killing more civilians in between airdrops...

The greatest improvement would be for the US, UK and the Germany governments to stop supplying arms to Israel...

Shoshin1 · March 4

The most moral military in the world...

The IOF (Israeli Occupation Force) operates under the mandate of the Knesset

It's quite sad and disheartening to see such hatred on display...

Horrifying New Gaza Study Shows Worst To Come - Without Immediate Ceasefire w/ Zeina Jamaluddine

With all the modern knowhow technology available for predicting and calculating death tolls, Israel know exactually what it's doing...

Even after the IDF are forced to stop their campaign of terror and destruction .... thousands upon thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians will continue to die from their wounds, or from starvation or be left crippled...

Shoshin1 · March 5

UNRWA Chief “Frustrated” Over Lack Of Evidence Behind Israeli Accusations

Mr. President,

On January 18, one week before the International Court of Justice ruling, the Israeli authorities informed me that 12 out of 30,000 UNRWA staff were allegedly involved in the horrific attacks of October 7.

No further information has been provided to me since that day, but the gravity of the allegations necessitated swift action. I terminated the contracts of the staff concerned in the interest of the Agency.

In parallel, an independent investigation by the Office of Internal Oversight Services was launched to establish the facts and is ongoing.

Separately, the Secretary-General commissioned an independent review of our approach to risk management and neutrality.

Despite these prompt and decisive actions, and the unsubstantiated nature of the allegations, 16 countries have paused their funding, totaling 450 million dollars.

UNRWA has no capacity to absorb financial shocks. Especially while a war rages in Gaza.

The fate of the Agency, and the millions of people who depend on it, hang in the balance.

Excellencies,

UNRWA is facing a deliberate and concerted campaign to undermine its operations, and ultimately end them.

Operations that are mandated by this Assembly.

Part of this campaign involves inundating donors with misinformation designed to foster distrust and tarnish the reputation of the Agency.

More blatant, is the Israeli Prime Minister openly stating that UNRWA will not be part of post-war Gaza.

The implementation of this plan is already underway with the destruction of our infrastructure across the Gaza Strip.

In the West Bank, movement restrictions and the banning of local staff from entering occupied East Jerusalem are affecting every aspect of our services.

Attempts to evict UNRWA from its Headquarters in East Jerusalem, and from a nearby vocational training center for Palestine Refugee youth are underway.

Draft legislation in the Israeli Knesset seeks to prohibit outright any activity by UNRWA on Israeli territory.

Mr. President,

The repeated calls by the Government of Israel to eliminate the Agency are not about neutrality.

The campaign against UNRWA is intended to shift the long-standing political parameters for peace in the occupied Palestinian territory set by the General Assembly and the Security Council, without consulting either body.

Attacks against UNRWA seek to eliminate its role in protecting the rights of Palestine Refugees and acting as a witness to their plight.

This role was highlighted by information shared in written and oral submissions before the International Court of Justice, as well as the Court’s provisional ruling, with a corresponding increase in attacks against the Agency.

UNRWA’s mandate embodies the promise of a fair and lasting political solution.

Dismantling the Agency in Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, would only serve those who oppose such a solution.

Palestinian Refugees would feel, 75 years after their Nakba, that the international community is once more turning its back.

Mr. President,
Excellencies,

In conclusion, I am not advocating for UNRWA to exist forever.

The Agency was always meant to be temporary.

It is a stain on our collective conscience that for 75 years UNRWA has had to fill a vacuum left by the lack of a political solution and a genuine peace.

I would like to place three requests before this Assembly today:

First, I ask that Member States commit to facilitating a long-overdue political process culminating in a solution that can bring peace to Palestinians and Israelis, and to chart the transition of UNRWA in this context only. Second, in the immediate term - and given the enormous risks in Gaza and to the entire region - I appeal to the General Assembly to ensure that the Agency receives the support it needs from relevant Member States to operate, and to close the gap between UNRWA’s mandate and funding model.
The Agency cannot fulfill the mandate given by this Assembly without matching funding from its members. Finally, I urge those Member States that are seeking alternatives to UNRWA to do so in a way that does not compromise Palestine Refugees’ right to self-determination and aspiration to a just and lasting solution to their plight. >The past 75 years have shown us that without a political solution, wars recur, and generations of Palestinians and Israelis suffer.

The international community has enabled this vicious cycle by failing to deliver peace for decades.

This cannot continue.

Thank you.

Full Statement of UNRWA Chief can be found "Here"

IdleChater · March 5

@Shoshin1 said:
The US air force has started to drop food into Gaza and at the same time the US government continues to supply money to Israel so they can to drop more bombs...WTF

Does genocide Joe expect the Palestinian people to thank him for this....

Genocide Joe.

I like that moniker. It kinda says it all. But it's not just Biden though. It's the whole guarantee of security that Israel has been taking advantage of, to commit ethnic cleansing, for more than 50 years. Every administration since the founding of the state of Israel has done the same thing. Back Israel, right or wrong.

And it's time to stop.

I've said before that I cannot or understand what Israel has done to Palestine - the same crimes that that Hitler perpetrated on them.

We need to call and end to it. Once and for all. Let it be said, that the USA will protect Palestine as well as Israel. Let them live together, in peace, or Israel will stand alone.

Shoshin1 · March 5

We need to call and end to it. Once and for all. Let it be said, that the USA will protect Palestine as well as Israel. Let them live together, in peace, or Israel will stand alone.

Yes I couldn't agree more...

This present Israeli government and successive Israeli governments (the present one seems to be the most extreme), with the help of their Western allies, are doing more harm to Jewish people around the world and to their own Israeli citizens...

Anti-Semitism is on the rise. People who are not anti-Semites are increasingly becoming anti-Israeli, where they see Israelis and the Israeli government as one entity, making no distinction between the two, especially after witnessing the appalling behavior of 'some" Israeli troops...

Israeli Jews living abroad and non-Israeli Jews are feeling unsafe and no doubt some fear for their lives, all thanks to the actions of Netanyahu's government...

Not only is anti-Semitism on the rise, but Islamophobia is as well. Some Western governments are passing laws that not only impact citizen's rights (for example, the right of pro-Palestinian groups to peacefully protest), but also affect local Muslim communities...

SuraShine · March 6

@Shoshin1 said:

Israeli Jews living abroad and non-Israeli Jews are feeling unsafe and no doubt some fear for their lives, all thanks to the actions of Netanyahu's government...

Oh trust me, not just some non-Israeli Jews, ALL non-Israeli Jews. It's far easier to live public life as a non-Jew these days...

person · March 6

I was curious about the data on this. It seems, in the US, anti-black hate crime is still the worst but anti-Semitism is 2nd. Anti-Semitism has seen the greatest increase, with anti trans a close 2nd, and these numbers are from a couple years ago. I imagine its only gotten much worse in the past few months.

https://usafacts.org/articles/which-groups-have-experienced-an-increase-in-hate-crimes/

Shoshin1 · March 7

Interesting link @person thanks...

From the Human Rights Watch

Amy Braunschweiger speaks with Human Rights Watch’s Almaz Teffera, who researches racism in Europe from Berlin, and George Wilkes, who researches antisemitism from Edinburgh, about the failure of European governments to effectively address antisemitism and all forms of racism and what should be done now.

Historically, escalations in Israel-Palestine have led to spikes in antisemitic and anti-Muslim hate speech and acts

None of us like to feel we’re prejudiced. We believe that, at heart, we are good and fair, and we don’t intend to harm others through our judgments. What we need to recognize is that affected communities don’t always feel that our consideration for them is fair. >They don’t feel our judgments are fully informed. It’s not just Israel-Palestine, it’s also our national narratives. We like to believe that our country is right. But if we can’t acknowledge that antisemitism and Islamophobia is a Europe-wide problem that affects everyone, it will be difficult to move forward in a positive way.

person · March 8

I was listening to The Political Gabfest today, a moderately left of center podcast with 2 Jews who host it and they were relating their anecdotes of the climate in their very progressive areas. Saying they feel the chill, that there is a palpable feeling these days that there is only one acceptable way of being Jewish, that of being explicitly anti Zionist.

That sort of synergizes with things I've heard elsewhere about how anti-Semitism is able to exist on the left because it has a nature that is a bit different that most other bigotry. Most bigotry punches down at the "lesser people", but anti-Semitism punches up at the success of Jews, conspiricizing at the way they control the world.

Shoshin1 · March 10

I was at a Palestinian solidarity rally in Auckland yesterday...( The last time I attended a rally was back in the early 1980s in Sydney "Rock Against Racism") ...

There was a diverse group of people at Saturday's event who had come to give support, Maori, Pakeha, along with members of the Kiwi Palestinian and Jewish community including some Israelis who now live here. Two of our political parties had representatives there, (the Maori party and the Green party) ...

Members of all the groups mentioned above gave speeches...

A middle age Jewish Israeli woman spoke of her time in Israel and when in 2015 she visited the West Bank for the first time and how shocked she was at how the Palestinian civilians (men women and children) were being treated by the IOF soldiers...

A young school age Palestinian girl told us that a hundred of her relatives have been killed in Gaza...

A young Maori man and woman spoke of what it is like living under colonial rule and how their lands were taken by force by the British...They have much in common with the People of Palestine...

I didn't march up the main street, I was just at the square when the speeches were given.. It was peaceful and well organised..

The only bit of drama was when a group of Destiny church thugs rode by on their motorbike, with their leader Brian Tamaki the self appointed bishop of bling...They all revved up as they rode past trying to drown out the speakers (it didn't work) ... His gang are all ex bike gang members who had 'found god' and new people to hate and intimidate ...

Following the Christchurch mosque shootings in March 2019, Brian Tamaki issued a Tweet protesting at Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's decision to hold an Islamic call to prayer ahead of the two minutes of silence being held for the victims of the Christchurch shootings on 22 March 2019. Tamaki also made remarks attacking Islam as a "false religion" and falsely claiming that Christianity was the national religion of New Zealand. He called removing Jesus Christ out of parliamentary prayer "a slap in the face" to "generations of Christians"

Tamaki led a pro-Israel rally outside the grounds of the New Zealand Parliament on 7 December, which attracted 400 supporters. Tamaki's group opposed calls for a ceasefire and submitted a petition to ACT MP Simon Court calling for Hamas and Hezbollah to be classified as a terror organisations and for sympathetic Members of Parliament to be expelled. In response, members of the Poneke Anti-Fascist Coalition staged a counter-protest outside the Supreme Court building in Lambton Quay

Shoshin1 · March 10

Are London's streets a 'no-go zone for Jews' during pro-Palestinian protests?

From what I gather there are many Jewish people marching with Palestinian solidarity groups ...Many are at the forefront of marches in Europe and the US ...

Shoshin1 · March 11

Meet The Wrong Type of Jew, Israel Doesn't Want You To Know Exists

Shoshin1 · March 13

More children have been reported killed in Gaza than four years of war worldwide
...And the so-called civilised world is letting it happen....

Shoshin1 · March 13

Professor Erin McCandless talks about the significance of South Africa's case against Israel and how it has strengthened the Palestinian cause.

Shoshin1 · March 14

BBC News

It's interesting that only now are we starting to see BBC journalists actually doing their job...
It would seem that like other Western mainstream media outlets and some Western politicians, they know which side their bread is buttered and are trying to save face and win back public opinion..

SuraShine · March 14

With all the Palestinan protestation by everyone, let's not forget Hamas don't care about Palestinians either...

News article here - https://allisrael.com/brother-of-arab-israeli-hostage-held-by-hamas-confronts-palestinian-un-ambassador

IdleChater · March 14

@SuraShine said:
With all the Palestinan protestation by everyone, let's not forget Hamas don't care about Palestinians either...

News article here - https://allisrael.com/brother-of-arab-israeli-hostage-held-by-hamas-confronts-palestinian-un-ambassador

Perfect excuse for Israel to murder tens of thousands of Palestinians in retaliation

Shoshin1 · March 15

Allisrael news

All Israel News is a news and media organization co-founded in 2020 by Joel C. Rosenberg, an American-Israeli author and Middle East expert, and by Joseph Magen, an American-Israeli businessman. Based in Jerusalem, Israel, All Israel News provides news, analysis, features, and educational content for the Evangelical Christian market.

All Israel News was founded in 2020 by Joel C. Rosenberg with the goal of providing credible news sources from Israel for Christians around the world. The company's vision is to provide objective news coverage, commentary, and analysis from a Biblical perspective and worldview to readers around the world who are interested in Israel, its people, and its continued relevance in the world today.

Since its inception, All Israel News has covered a broad range of topics, including politics, archeology, national security, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and Israel's economy. The company has been featured in various media outlets around the world, including The Jerusalem Post, Fox News, The New York Times, CBN News, and The Times of Israel.

Shoshin1 · March 15

Interesting discussion on UpFront

Is this a watershed moment for Jewish solidarity with Palestinians?

SuraShine · March 17

@IdleChater said:

Perfect excuse for Israel to murder tens of thousands of Palestinians in retaliation

Where did I even INTIMATE that? I am merely pointing out that Hamas are NO ONE'S friend. That tends to get lost in the fray.

And if you think that's my take, you obviously have read none of my previous posts.

SuraShine · March 17

@Shoshin1 said:
Allisrael news

All Israel News is a news and media organization co-founded in 2020 by Joel C. Rosenberg, an American-Israeli author and Middle East expert, and by Joseph Magen, an American-Israeli businessman. Based in Jerusalem, Israel, All Israel News provides news, analysis, features, and educational content for the Evangelical Christian market.

All Israel News was founded in 2020 by Joel C. Rosenberg with the goal of providing credible news sources from Israel for Christians around the world. The company's vision is to provide objective news coverage, commentary, and analysis from a Biblical perspective and worldview to readers around the world who are interested in Israel, its people, and its continued relevance in the world today.

Since its inception, All Israel News has covered a broad range of topics, including politics, archeology, national security, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and Israel's economy. The company has been featured in various media outlets around the world, including The Jerusalem Post, Fox News, The New York Times, CBN News, and The Times of Israel.

I did not read the site and do not know it from a bar of soap. I was sharing the video - seems sharing something not tied to shitting on Israel automatically brands me an asshole on this site.....

SuraShine · March 17

@Shoshin1 said:
Interesting discussion on UpFront

Is this a watershed moment for Jewish solidarity with Palestinians?

Why are you surprised? Not all Jews are fans of Netanyahu. To be completely honest, the constant need for people to have Jews distance themselves from the Israeli government, especially non-Israeli Jews is fucking EXHAUSTING. As I stated in previous posts, the approval rate (which is falling) is/was 14% for Netanyahu. If the media and society in general gave a rat's ass about what Israelis and Jews REALLY think, the reporting might be a bit more balanced, but where's the fun in that. The media can't spin that.

And yes you'll likely write me off as overemotional or some other thing, and to be honest, good for you. Since October 7th I've had death threats, my car vandalised and harrassment in public with no support. I'm at the point where I don't wear anything to identify me as Jewish. I'm against the war, the occupation of the West Bank and am no fan of Netanyahu, but that means nothing to the majority of Pro-Palestinian supporters because I'm a coloniser (never set foot in Israel though I have family who have been in living there since at least 1901 when it was referred to as Palestina of the Otttoman Empire - the British Mandate was in 1920), an automatic genocide supporter - even though I am adamantly against the war and have been told by numerous people Hitler didn't finish the job etc. People like me just can't win. And that extends to here apparently.

I'm going to take a break from here because frankly my sanity and safety is more important than an online site that judges the whole by the few - especially since I posted a video and shock horror didn't check the website it's on. I might add that video has done the rounds on Insta, Facebook etc etc with no source but I digress.

Anyway, take care peeps. See you maybe further down the track sometime.

Shoshin1 · March 17

It's deeply troubling to hear about the distressing experiences you've been facing. It's disheartening that some individuals resort to mindless aggression when overwhelmed by frustration and anger. My hope is that you are safe and able to stay out of harm's way during these challenging times.

Yes it's important to recognise that within the Jewish communities worldwide, there are diverse perspectives regarding the actions of the current government in Israel. Many Jewish individuals, both in Israel and abroad, express criticism of the right-wing Netanyahu government.

It's worth noting that there are Jewish individuals who actively participate in Palestinian solidarity movements, standing alongside their Palestinian counterparts wanting justice and peace for all.
Stay safe @SuraShine

Jeroen · March 17

Sorry to hear you feel the need to take a break, @SuraShine I always think of NewBuddhist as a safe haven.

Please take good care of yourself

Shoshin1 · March 17

I'm going to take a break from here because frankly my sanity and safety is more important than an online site that judges the whole by the few - especially since I posted a video and shock horror didn't check the website it's on. I might add that video has done the rounds on Insta, Facebook etc etc with no source but I digress.

@SuraShine I understand that many Jewish people are feeling anxious given historical events, and it's crucial for governments to take steps to prevent such tragedies from repeating. However, there's a sense of frustration that these same governments didn't intervene earlier to pressure the Israeli government into halting the violence against civilians. This failure to act has tragically resulted in the deaths of thousands of Palestinians and sparked protests worldwide. And with these worldwide protests, anti-Semites see this as an opportunity to target Jewish individuals indiscriminately.

I don't think that the people posting here are tarring all Jewish people with the same brush.

When people talk about what a country like the US, UK, or Israel is doing in the world, they often just say the name of the country without saying "government" or "leaders." This is because it's kind of understood that they mean the government's actions, not every single person in that country.

Governments are supposed to represent the people, so criticisms are usually about the leaders and their decisions, not the whole population.

I don't understand why you're considering having a break from your participation on this forum..
Couldn't you just block notifications related to this topic or choose not to open the links? If I come across something disturbing or uninteresting, I simply ignore it. Perhaps you could do the same?

Shoshin1 · March 18

@SuraShie said:
Why are you surprised? Not all Jews are fans of Netanyahu

No, I'm not surprised at all....
It's not uncommon to find Jewish individuals who oppose Netanyahu and advocate for Palestinian rights. I've actually brought up this point several times in this thread. The reason I emphasize this is to ensure that newcomers to this thread understand that the discussion focuses on Israeli government policies, not Jewish people as a whole.. Over the years, the Israeli government has pursued aggressive policies towards Palestinians and maintained a controversial settler occupation on Palestinian land.

When it comes to rights, the Palestinian people share a similar fate with many other colonised people...For example, what happened just recently in Australia...

Australians have resoundingly rejected a proposal to recognise Aboriginal people in the country’s constitution and establish a body to advise parliament on Indigenous issues

The defeat will be seen by Indigenous advocates as a blow to what has been a hard fought struggle to progress reconciliation and recognition in modern Australia, with First Nations people continuing to suffer discrimination, poorer health and economic outcomes

Indigenous advocates from each side of the debate reported receiving a surge in racist abuse and prominent Aboriginal personalities across Australian media also complained of the toxic nature of debate and online vitriol.

The article "here"

Shoshin1 · March 18

Chuck Schumer calls on Benjamin Netanyahu to step down over war on Gaza in Senate speech

The fourth major obstacle to peace is Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has all too frequently bowed to the demands of extremists like ministers smotri and Ben gavier and the settlers in the West Bank. I have known Prime Minister Netanyahu for a very long time. While we have vehemently disagreed on many occasions, I will always respect his extraordinary bravery for Israel on the battlefield as a younger man. I believe in his heart, his highest priority is the security of Israel. However, I also believe Prime Minister Netanyahu has lost his way by allowing his political survival to take precedence over the best interests of Israel. He has put himself in coalition with far-right extremists like Minister smotri and benir, and as a result, he has been too willing to tolerate the civilian toll in Gaza, which is pushing support for Israel worldwide to historic lows. Israel cannot survive if it becomes a pariah.

Prime Minister Netanyahu has also weakened Israel's political and moral fabric through his attempts to co-opt the judiciary, and he has shown zero interest in doing the courageous and visionary work required to pave the way for peace. Even before this present conflict, as a lifelong supporter of Israel, it has become clear to me that the Netanyahu coalition no longer fits the needs of Israel. After October 7th, the world has changed radically since then, and the Israeli people are being stifled right now by a governing vision that is stuck in the past.

>

Shoshin1 · March 18

Israel Deliberately Starving Gaza
Owen Jones

Well, the famine-like conditions are man-made. From the very beginning, the Israeli military stopped the delivery of food, fuel, electricity, and other life-saving goods and later allowed only a trickle of aid in through the land crossings, with very little of it reaching the north. The Israeli military has delayed or denied humanitarian missions to the north, actually bombed trucks bringing in aid, and killed a record number, well over 100 UN aid workers for UNRWA.

There is a choice. The Israeli military can open up adequate land routes, fulfill its obligation to secure those convoys, and protect people so that they can actually have enough to eat. This doesn't have to be this way. Now, Israel's smear campaign against UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees and the main humanitarian agency in Gaza, was never backed up with evidence. But they led several Western donor states to cut funding, like the EU and Canada, reinstating that funding but only after the damage had been done.
Sari Bashi Programme Director. Human Rights Watch

Shoshin1 · March 20

This AJ documentary is interesting...
The Influence of Evangelical Christians On The US Foreign Policy When It Come To Israel

No offence to my American Buddhist sisters and brothers, but for an outsider like myself, the USA comes across like one big mental asylum...
A case of ... "You don't have to be mad to live there, but it helps"

However, it would seem that this insanity is contagious and has spread to other parts of the globe...Down Under is not immune...

Jeroen · March 20

I had noticed this about America… there were several occasions where I had chances to go live in the USA and earn lots of money, but I always decided against it because of the social climate. The whole attitude about competitiveness and fighting each other is something I did not like.

person · March 20

I'll just say that the US is very large and diverse. Each state is the size of an average country, we have a federal system of government where each state has a lot of control over how it is governed. Since it is one country though people can move easily from one region to another without needing to change citizenship or currency, etc., so there is a lot of self sorting. Its easy to move and live with more like minded people.

I've lived in the same area for 50 years and have rarely witnessed the attitudes you talk about. I've seen the Christian identitarianism prominently displayed when I've traveled to certain other areas and I've experienced some of the competitiveness occasionally when dealing with people from outside my region. For example I just did a lot of work for someone who grew up here but moved out east for her professional life and just recently moved back to retire. People in her neighborhood would stop and make small talk and she'd talk to me about how this seemed really weird to her, like they were up to something. She also was much more perfectionistic and passive aggressive than I'm used to dealing with.

The competitiveness seems from my perspective like more of an elite professional thing. I listen to podcasters who live in that world and they talk about trying to let that sort of thing go and a desire to develop attitudes that just seem like part of my everyday working class life.

Mainly I'm saying don't judge us all by the headline grabbing extremists.

Shoshin1 · March 21

Mainly I'm saying don't judge us all by the headline grabbing extremists.

It's true that there are wackjobs in most countries, it's just that in the US they seem to be more prevalent and due to weird and whacky worldwide news coverage from the US, the wackiness extremes come to the attention of the rest of the world more often that the wackjobs elsewhere...

I know that certain states have more wackjobs than others (Texas comes to mind)..The tight grip that warmongering apocalyptic evangelical Christians have on US politics is (for want of a better term) scary...

Quite a while back I was on a Buddhist forum (it's no longer running ) there was a Zen practitioner there who lived in an apartment block in a city in the bible belt, he never disclosed to his neighbours, friends and work colleagues that he was Buddhist, for fear he would be ostracised and seen as a devil worshipper, at first I thought he was joking, but he was serious...

Vastmind · March 21

I too am in the Bible Belt and like him, for the same reasons, never tell anyone. I self sorted here for other reasons. 😉 As huge as this country is, the sorting happens all the way down to cities and towns. The rail road tracks are a past time for setting borders and lines that are still in place today….But yeah, a lot of damn nut cases here, hahaha

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